Table of Contents for this Episode
Categories: France How To, Health & Safety
[00:00:00]
Introduction
Annie Sargent: This is Join Us in France, episode 622, six cent vingt-deux.
Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent, and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today on the podcast: How to Handle Protests in France
Annie Sargent: Today, I bring you a conversation with several listeners who were caught up in the October 17th unrest and riots.
Thankfully, the demonstrations the following Sunday, October 24th, were much calmer. The unions kept better control of their marches, the police kept their cool, and there was very little looting.
But French people are still very unhappy, and the demonstrations will continue in big city centers. So if you’re traveling to France, [00:01:00] it pays to know how to stay out of trouble, and there are many very good ways to do that, and we get into all of that in the recording.
Podcast supporters
Annie Sargent: Before we start, this show runs on listener support. If you want to work with me directly, I do itinerary consults. I’ve written eight tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app, and I can take you on day trips from Toulouse, where I live. Everything is at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Magazine segment
Annie Sargent: There will not be a magazine part of the podcast today because these conversations ran long, but I do want to thank and a shout-out to new patrons Natalie Talbot Meadows, Jessica Andrews, and Cindy Doyle. And a big merci to bootcamper Annie Pueblo for upgrading her support. To join this wonderful community of Francophiles, go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, go to [00:02:00] patreon.com/elysart.
I had my Zoom with patrons last Sunday, and next Sunday, November 8th, I’m hosting my first Zoom entirely in French. All levels are welcome, and you’re welcome to just listen if you’d like. I’ve also started adding older episodes on Patreon, so patrons will eventually have the entire catalog ad-free in their favorite podcast app.
Thank you for being here, and enjoy the episode.
1 Patricia Howard
Annie Sargent: Bonjour Patricia Howard and welcome to Join Us in France.
Patricia Howard: Hello, Annie. I’m pleased to be here.
Annie Sargent: So I just met you at the bootcamp. You’re a lovely person from Oregon, and you are still in France after the bootcamp. And so, you were here in France since all these riot problems and demonstration problems have started.
[00:03:00] Where were you on Saturday?
Patricia Howard: On Saturday we were in Bordeaux. We had been in Paris the day before.
Annie Sargent: Okay, so you had just arrived in Bordeaux? Are you staying at a hotel or an apartment?
Patricia Howard: It’s more like a bed and breakfast. It was in the home of a woman who has lived in Bordeaux her entire life, and she lets out four rooms for guests, just a few blocks away from the Place de la Bourse.
Annie Sargent: Okay, so Hyper City Center, did you feel threatened at any time?
Patricia Howard: We weren’t threatened by the protesters or the riot police as much as by the uncertainty of the situation. It felt dangerous. It was dangerous. It was very dynamic and disorienting. It just happened, like, we didn’t expect it. There was nothing in the morning to indicate that anything big was going to happen.
We had gone on a [00:04:00] self-guided walking tour, that took about two hours, came back around noontime. Our boat tour for the afternoon was never canceled. We saw no sign of police or other law enforcement. We didn’t see any protesters, so we thought maybe it’s going to be small here.
Then headed over to the Place de la Bourse to head over to where the boat was docked, and we literally turned a corner, and it was chaos. We were tear gassed.
What might be helpful for your listeners to understand why it’s so different here because it’s a medieval, it’s a UNESCO site, and it’s a medieval city with these narrow, winding roads, and you don’t see the end of what’s coming at you.
So we would go down these streets, turn a corner, and there’d be protesters running towards us and a big plume of tear gas.
On another occasion, we turned a corner, there were fires. And then another time we turned a corner, and there was this wall of riot [00:05:00] police running towards us, and we just ended up pressing ourselves against a building until they passed. And that’s what I mean, it was so disorienting.
You know, at one point we found ourselves on the Place de la Bourse, and that was just as discombobulating. It was so crazy. We finally found ourselves in a situation where there was this gap between the police and the protesters, and we just ran right through it, ran into another wall of riot police.
And I don’t know what they were thinking, but I was able to ask them in French if we could please pass. And this guy, one of the officers just gave me this look, and he very politely let us through. It was very helpful. And then we were able to get back to the hotel from there.
Annie Sargent: Right, right. So you had to change your plans. I mean, this disrupted your plans for the day.
Patricia Howard: It did, and what was so odd is the boat tour was never canceled. We ended up getting the tickets switched to the next day. I mean, the pier was in the middle of [00:06:00] where all of this was happening, and we actually saw a boat take off. And we thought that would be a safe place to be for the afternoon, but the protest and protesters were just swarming around the pier where we were supposed to be.
We actually bumped into a woman who was going to go on the tour, who had an infant, and she just, she looked terrified.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah, no, this is scary, yeah.
Patricia Howard: It’s very scary.
Annie Sargent: Like you mentioned, it’s very dynamic, and so there are people everywhere, people running around, rushing around. There’s lots of police. Did you experience any tear gas?
Patricia Howard: Three times. I’ve never in my life experienced tear gas before. The first time, we weren’t anticipating it, and I got it down into my upper chest, and it’s just the most painful, awful experience. But people came up and asked if we needed help. That was really quite reassuring.
There were individuals throughout the protest who would just look at anyone who was having difficulties and come up and see if they could offer assistance.
Annie Sargent: So these were protesters who were [00:07:00] offering to help you.
Patricia Howard: Yeah. They had like, I think, a cross on… There’s a photo I shared with you, and they had on top of their head like a cross or something to indicate that they were, I guess, medical.
I don’t know if they were. They could provide some medical support as needed.
But it was also just really interesting to be around all these young individuals who were just like, everyone is in pain when that happens, and scared because it’s just ick. It was very painful.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. So do these events change the way you feel about visiting France?
Patricia Howard: No.We live in Portland. We’ve experienced our share of protests that devolve into riots and looting, vandalism. I don’t love France any less. I don’t love the people any less that I’ve met here or the culture.
The issues are very complicated, and it’s unfortunate that individuals come in and make it about them instead about the very serious concerns that have been raised here, at least in the few weeks [00:08:00] that we’ve been here, the issues of the students.
Annie Sargent: Do you have some tips to give to people of what to do if they get caught in a situation like this?
Patricia Howard: Yeah, the first thing is to stay calm and don’t take photos or video. I don’t know why I did that, but this is not the time and place to be doing that. What we discovered if you find yourself being tear-gassed is to kind of hunch over if you have tissues or a cloth or a coat or anything, just put it over your face and breathe and shut your eyes and breathe shallowly.
And if you can, you know, if you can move your body up against a wall or something kind of away from the mainstream of people. You don’t want to be running with the protesters, and you don’t want to be running towards the police. So you just need to kind of make yourself really small and get out of the traffic and movement.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, and this is a… this is a problem because I always recommend people stay downtown. It’s fun to stay downtown. But yeah, that’s where protests tend to happen.
Patricia Howard: It is, but I mean, we’ve been traveling for years. This is our third trip to France in a [00:09:00] row, and this just happened. We did not anticipate this. I would come back in a heartbeat, but you just have to be prepared. If you’re at a hotel or, you know, just talk to people in the know who might be able to help you and guide you about whether or not you should even be going out that day.
Annie Sargent: Yes, and really between now and the election, which is going to be April 2027, I assume there are going to be more protests.
And so probably it would be wise to look up where protests tend to gather in the particular town where you’re staying. I don’t know Bordeaux, very… I’ve never lived there, so I don’t know where the protesters gather, but that would be a place to avoid because, if there is a protest that’s going to gather, it’s going to start from there. That’s usually where the police meet the protesters, and it’s never a good spot to be in. It’s worth checking, you know, like ask an AI. Because this is published data.
We know where the protesters always start from. And so say, "In Bordeaux, where are the [00:10:00] protests usually starting from or ending at, and what’s the route that they usually take?" Although this time it was different. This time there were so many people that things got out of hand.
Patricia Howard: Oh, I’m sorry, I was just going to say, we had checked with our host and she looked up for us, and it was supposed to be someplace else. So we really did think we were fine. I mean, we were out for several hours before the protests officially started, and we saw no one. Like I said, no police presence. So we just thought, "Okay, it’s someplace else."
Annie Sargent: Did you see some looting afterwards?
Patricia Howard: We did. Actually, where we were staying was on a narrow alleyway, and the looters, for whatever reason, they chose our street, and you would just see the people coming by dressed in black. They seemed to be young and really excited about the goods that they had just looted, and they actually stood underneath our window most of the night showing off what they got, changing their clothes.
When we woke up the next morning, there was just piles of coat [00:11:00] hangers and empty boxes and broken glass.
It was terrible. And the next morning, we went out… Is it on Rue du Saint-Catherine? The longest shopping street in Europe, and it was bad.
People were out cleaning up. I mean, a lot of folks were out just seeing what had happened, getting a coffee, getting breakfast. But it was a mess, and it smells. It smelled a lot. You could smell the burning what had been bicycles or cars orwhat have you.
Inside, there was one, I forgot the name of this building, but there was one building that was set on fire. But I was surprised at how many people were out and walking around the next morning, and just how quickly people took action to clean it up and try to restore some sense of normalcy, I guess.
Annie Sargent: Wow, I’m so glad you’re okay and that nothing terrible happened to you or your husband because these are scary situations and I’m glad you kept your wits about you and did the right thing.
Patricia Howard: And we’ve loved our visit here, and bootcamp and the class I took. It’s been a [00:12:00] wonderful three weeks. This is just part of the experience, and I just feel very bad.
Annie Sargent: You have a taste of real France for sure.
Patricia Howard: I think so. And it a pleasure meeting you, too.
Annie Sargent: Yes, definitely. Thank you so much for talking to me, Patty. Your testimony I guess, is really important for people to hear because that’s when the stuff gets real.
Patricia Howard: It does. It does. Thank you so much for asking me to participate in this podcast.
Annie Sargent: Merci, Patty.
Patricia Howard: Okay. Bye.
2 Lachlan Cook
Annie Sargent: Bonjour, Lachlan Cook. Welcome back to Join Us in France, and thank you for talking to me about these October 17th riots, I guess we should call them. That’s what the French press is calling them, so that’s what I’ll do. Let me ask you a few questions. Where were you on October 17th?
Lachlan C: I was staying in my place in the 4th and typically are… in Paris, and typically on a Saturday I will go to Mouftard for the market there and have lunch there, which is what I did.
Annie Sargent: Okay, so you feel threatened at any time?
Lachlan C: No, [00:13:00] in the 4th I did notice there was one store that had a broken window quite a ways down from us, and there was some garbage in the street, but nothing going on really here. I will say that on my way back from the fifth, I walked through a bunch of students on the bridge over to Île Saint-Louis but they were peaceful and they were walking around.
Shortly after I passed them, a phalanx of motorcycle cops came roaring up, did a U- turn, and went roaring off in the other direction.
And then as I got home, there were protesters marching down my street, but they were not violent and they were not stopping. So I kind of scooted in my door and watched from my window.
That was basically the contact I had with protesting. I will say that that evening I went to a concert in the sixth at a friend’s house, and on the way home, the Metro at Châtelet was closed, so I got off at Cité. And when I came up, there was a lot of residual tear gas in the air, but the action was over. I walked home, it was fine, but I was [00:14:00] definitely wanting to shower and get the sort of residue off.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, it looks like Right Bank versus Left Bank made a big difference in Paris. Left Bank was rather quiet.
Lachlan C: Yeah, Left Bank seems largely untouched.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. So you didn’t really have to change your plans.
Lachlan C: Not particularly. I did kind of stay close to home. I will say that on Sunday I took the Metro up to République just to see what was going on, and I walked Place de la République, which was full of garbage. There was a bus shelter, a kiosk burned, a car burned. But other than that, it didn’t look…
You know, on the news it looked like the world had come to an end. When I got there it was mainly just sort of garbage and graffiti and nothing much going on. I then took the Metro over to Bastille for the Sunday market, which is my normal Sunday, and Bastille looked, other than some graffition the monument, Bastille looked totally normal. The market was proceeding absolutely as normal.
Annie Sargent: Is there anything you wish you had known before this event?
Lachlan C: As you know, I come to [00:15:00] Paris a lot, so these protests are not exactly new. These ones got more out of hand than normal. I would say that my main thing, which I already knew, is you want to stay away from Place de la République. You don’t want to be staying near there. You’ve said that multiple times. That’s not news. And I have a tendency that if I see trouble, I turn around and go the other direction. So the main concern that people will have even trying to stay away from it is every so often you run into a group of people who are sort of off the map, but they’re generally moving and it’s not violent.
The other thing is you’ll find that metro stations close on an ongoing basis, and where that’s really annoying is if you need to change trains, because it makes it difficult.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, it does. I would recommend people Google or ask an AI, depending on what town they’re staying in, where is the habitual start of demonstrations in that city? Because every city has a place where they habitually start [00:16:00] demonstrations, and I would, as a rule, not stay in that area. Because whether it is, I mean, in Toulouse, I know exactly where it is. In Paris, I know exactly where it is. But these are the towns I know about because those are the towns I go to.
You can ask. Demonstrations are always approved by the prefecture, and they have a path that the demonstration is able to follow. Don’t be on that path. And you can Google that.
If you do a bit of research, you’ll know.
Lachlan C: And a note on this one, part of the problem was that the agreements on the routes of the demonstration never got perfected, and so these ones were more random than usual. That’s not the normal choreography. The second thing I would tell people for Paris is if you get on the Bonjour RATP app, you can hit the traffic button, you can check your line and see which stops are closed, and they’re pretty good about updating that.
Annie Sargent: There you are. So are you going to change your habits? Are you going to stop coming to France? Are you going to tell people, "Oh, France is a terrible place!
Lachlan C: [00:17:00] No, actually, I feel like unfortunately the news tends to, you know, what makes good news is seeing terrible things. So, I would tell people generally speaking that while there is a fair amount of destruction in certain areas, it’s localized, and it’s very short duration. So that might go on for an hour at night, but the next morning there’s some burned stuff in the street.
Yesterday I walked Boulevard Sebastopol, which was supposed to be particularly bad, just to see what was going on there, and the first part of it was untouched. The second part had a lot of burned bicycles and scooters, an occasionally smashed up store. A lot of windows where people had just kind of busted the window but hadn’t gotten through, and the cleanup crews were there in action.
I saw two burned cars, but other than that, things were proceeding as normal.
Last night the city put a curfew from 11 to 6 AM on both Les Halles Châtelet and on Place de la République, and that seems to have calmed things down. The other good news is it sort of got [00:18:00] cold and rainy, which definitely dims people’s ardor.
Annie Sargent: Absolutely. Thank you so much for talking to me, and happy visits to France.
Lachlan C: Yeah, so if you are planning to come, the good news is that a lot of people have canceled, so you should be able to get a hotel rather easily. And, obviously, follow Annie’s advice. Don’t stay near République, and I probably wouldn’t stay near Bastille or Châtelet right now. Bastille is generally a decent place to stay, but I’m not sure I would necessarily do it now.
Annie Sargent: Yes, and these demonstrations are likely to continue, just like the Gilets Jaunes that went on for almost a year. We forgot, but for a year, every Saturday, we had the Gilets Jaunes outside, and Gilets Jaunes was worse because it was all over the country. So like there were roundabouts near where I live, which is rural, semi-rural around Toulouse, that were blocked.
This is not going to be that sort of thing, but it might go on until the elections, I would think, which are going to be April next year. I [00:19:00] would think that we’re going to have things like that repeated most Saturdays.
Lachlan C: Yes, they are already talking about doing it next week.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
For some people in France, it’s a hobby, and maybe that’s a bad thing, maybe that’s a good thing. That’s a political question that I’m not going to get into, but it’s a fact.
Lachlan C: I think the worst part of this whole situation, at least in Paris, is the discussion has completely moved away from schools and the real issues, and has really become more about violence and keeping order, which kind of has negated the whole basis of the protest in a lot of ways.
Annie Sargent: That happens a lot. All right. Thank you very much, Lachlan. Happy travels.
Lachlan C: All right. Take care, Annie.
Annie Sargent: Thanks.
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3 Anne Marie and Tom Blank
Annie Sargent: Bonjour, Anne-Marie and Tom Blank, and welcome to Join Us in France.
Anne-Marie Blank: Hi, Annie. Nice to see you.
Tom Blank: Again.
Annie Sargent: Yes. You were at the bootcamp with me a few weeks ago, and you’re now home. But what I want to talk to you about today is you were in France when the unrest [00:20:00] of October 17th happened. I want to know where you were and how it went for you.
Anne-Marie Blank: Sure. So on October 17th, which was last Saturday, we were in Limoges, and we had gotten there Friday night after visiting Oradour-sur-Glane, which was a martyred village which had been burned down, and it was very interesting and moving. And we got to Limoges that afternoon and spent the evening.
We went out to dinner. We walked by the city hall, which is called the Mairie de Limoges. We commented on what a beautiful building it was. I thought, "Wow, this is a gorgeous building." I almost thought it was a church at first because it has a beautiful bell tower. And went to dinner. Didn’t feel really any uncomfortable feeling that night.
But the next morning we were touring the porcelain museum, which was gorgeous. Loved it. Had a nice lunch downtown in an old district and did some shopping. And I started getting on our WhatsApp group from the bootcamp, the other bootcampers were in Bordeaux and Paris and experiencing some demonstrations of tear gas, and it was getting [00:21:00] kind of serious.
Tom Blank: Messy.
Anne-Marie Blank: And we said, "Let’s go back to the hotel for a few hours and just kind of stay out off the streets." And then around 4:00, we decided to go see the Limoges train station, and then we went to the botanical gardens, and we ended up going to church because it was Saturday night. We said, "Let’s go to mass."
We ended up in a small church, and in the middle of mass, this was about 7:00 PM, the lights went out in the church, and there were just the candles. And the priest continued. He finished his mass, and we all went along and at around 7:30 decided, you know, walk home because we had dinner reservations at 8:00.
And we were walking home. We started smelling smoke. We avoided going down main streets. We were kind of on side streets. Got back to our hotel and that’s when we realized that the city hall was on fire, and we could see it from our sixth-floor hotel room. We looked out the window, and we saw the plume of smoke and then the… just the flames were just overwhelming.
It was really sad to see, and I guess just thinking back on the [00:22:00] Oradour visit, that whole town had been burned by the Nazis in 1944, and to see what was happening current day was really, really devastating.
Annie Sargent: It’s striking, yeah. But it sounds like you were not caught in any demonstration or tear gas or anything.
Tom Blank: Nothing of that ilk, but when we walked to church, we were probably two to three blocks from where the demonstrations were happening. And so we saw people gathering there, and we could even hear a lot of noise when we were sitting in the church at mass. And so we were around it. We heard a lot of noise, motorcycles, van with huge speakers on top blaring when we went down to look at the train station. That was probably when I was most fearful of some unrest because these were not students. I saw some of the students that I was actually with a number of other people in Toulouse at Saint-Sernin and needed to leave.
They [00:23:00] actually closed the church for visitors when there were student demonstrations. So I saw some of that when Anne-Marie was in class those five days, some of the student protests leading up to it, but nothing like what we saw in Limoges.
Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm. So in Limoges it was more like people all dressed in black and face coverings.
Anne-Marie Blank: Yeah.
Tom Blank: Yep. Not students.
Anne-Marie Blank: Yeah. When you show up at a demonstration with ski goggles or swimming goggles and gas mask and things, clearly you have other intentions, I suppose.
Annie Sargent: Did you feel threatened at any time? It was sad more than threatened it sounds like.
Anne-Marie Blank: Well, you know, you’re in the sixth floor of a hotel. You don’t know if they’re going to attack tourists or other parts of the city. I mean, obviously they struck at the city hall, for a purpose. But when you’re in the midst of it, you don’t know if they’re going to harm innocent bystanders who are just walking down the street.
So it was a little nerve-wracking.
Tom Blank: Yeah, and it was interesting, Annie. We went to dinner at Le Cheverny, which is a very nice restaurant right down from our [00:24:00] hotel, the opposite direction of what was going on, and we had a chance to chat with the proprietor, and he was 50 years old or younger, very shaken up. As he said, "This is my town. I’m trying to run a business here. I’m trying to raise my family, protect my children." And you really felt for him.
Again, we were never actively threatened, but again, around the train station is where I felt uneasy, and frankly when the lights went out in the middle of church, you’re wondering, is somebody going to kick the door in?
Annie Sargent: Right. I mean, that could have been that the church power is insufficient at the church and it’s something turned on.
Anne-Marie Blank: The people in the church were saying, "We think it’s related to the demonstrations."
Annie Sargent: We were too close. We must have been on the same power grid or something like that, as the mayor’s office.Interesting. So what advice do you have for people who get caught in situations like this? What would you tell them? I mean, clearly you did some things very right.
Anne-Marie Blank: Yeah. We tried to stay off the streets when we heard… We thought it was going to be around a 2:00 PM demonstration, so we tried to stay, take a little rest time in our hotel. We [00:25:00] talked to the people at the front desk and asked where they thought you know, where it was safe to walk, and they were very helpful.
Just use caution, try to avoid the crowds at that time, and walk away. Go to other streets.
Tom Blank: I mean, we took… we took a very indirect path to get back to our hotel. We did. Our direct path would’ve been right past the office.
We didn’t know at that point in time that there had been a fire.
When we were walking back a circuitous route, we saw people looking out their windows from the second or third floor, and people with cameras, and we didn’t really know at that point exactly…
Anne-Marie Blank: Yeah, until we started smelling the smoke …
Tom Blank: …what was going on. Until we got back to the hotel and opened our windows and looked out in shock to see something like that.
Yeah. I mean, it wasn’t Notre Dame, obviously, but- it caused you to think about it. A beautiful building like that. Think of all the records of the town that we’re in.
Annie Sargent: Oh, yeah. And this is an affront to… I mean, this is an attack on the, you know, The Republic, on… I mean, the City Hall stands for our [00:26:00] system government, you know.
And they have made arrests, a couple of arrests already, and these people are not goin to get away with it. But unfortunately, it would’ve been better to do something before.
And this is the difficulty with this movement is that in the case of Limoges, it was clearly a political act. And I guess demonstrations to ask for better circumstances from students is also a political act, but it’s more of a, you know, we want a better society and not we want to tear it down.
The students are not asking for anarchy.
They have legitimate demands. The situation in Limoges is going to be, hopefully they’ll find out.
And of course, there’s been calls to rebuild the city hall as it was and all of that.
You know, Limoges is not a city that has that many buildings that are you know, visit worthy, I guess.
It is a fine city. But it’s not one that has a vast number of, "Oh, well, you go [00:27:00] see some other 10, 20 things," you know, like in other cities.
So yeah, it’s kind of sad what happened. Is there anything you wish you had known before you were… I mean, you had been at the bootcamp. You saw how I was handling
the demonstration because we had discussed this on the bus, there’s going to be a demonstration tomorrow, do we keep the same pickup point, or do I make you walk further? But I didn’t know at that point where the path of the demonstration was going to be.
Once I figured it out a few hours later, I said, "Yeah, we could stay in the same point." But that’s the thing, you know. You have to know a bit about the path those demonstrations are going to take, although in Limoges it wouldn’t have made any difference because they were clearly out to do some damage.
Tom Blank: Those guys, were anarchists, no question. They were there, and again, a lot of people, I’ve done a lot of reading since getting back, think that this was all a stage to just loot and steal, and that that’s partly what was there.
And not that there [00:28:00] aren’t legitimate ways to ask for better wages or better living conditions and rents, et cetera, but, you know, that’s not the way you do it.
Anne-Marie Blank: But in terms of what to do if you’re a visitor overseas when this happens, I guess, you know, hunker down in your hotel and talk to people that… your hosts and try to avoid crowded areas.
Annie Sargent: And keep in mind that most of Limoges, most of France was fine.
Most places were fine. So if you can walk away from there, you’re going to be OK.
Anne-Marie Blank: We had just come back from our bike trip, which was between Cahors and Sarlat, and that area was super peaceful, very quiet.
Tom Blank: No issues.
Anne-Marie Blank: You know, we were like, "La La Land there."
Ah. It was nice.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, that night I went to a concert in a small village. They have a beautiful church, and they had a concert of Occitan Christmas sort of music. It was very fun. It was polyphonic singing, beautiful voices. It was great. And we walk out, and get hit by [00:29:00] the news of all this unrest happening everywhere.
And we’re like, "Oh, this is crazy," because where we were, it was completely peaceful.
And most of France was completely peaceful, but the images are hard to ignore.
There were some very bad points.
At any rate, I’m very glad that you were okay and that you had… I know you had a great time at the bootcamp and also on your bike tour.
Anne-Marie Blank: Yeah. It was a great three weeks in France overall. It was wonderful. We love it!
Annie Sargent: Memorable for sure when it comes to the end of your trip, but that’s how it is.
Anne-Marie Blank: We will be back.
Annie Sargent: Wonderful to know. Merci beaucoup.
Anne-Marie Blank: Okay, merci Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
4 Patricia Perry
Anne-Marie Blank: Bonjour, Patricia Perry. Welcome back to Join Us in France.
Patricia Perry: Bonjour Annie. Ça va?
Annie Sargent: Ça va très bien, merci. Wonderful to see you and talk to you. So I want to talk about the October 17th riots or demonstrations or not sure what to call them. You were in Paris, [00:30:00] right?
Patricia Perry: Yeah, I was in Paris at my home in the 15th, on the Rive Gauche, the Left Bank, where nothing happened. Nothing happened on the Rive Gauche that day. Amazing. Everything was on the other side and really concentrated, like in Place de la République, which is classic, then a few other hotspots.
Annie Sargent: Like Châtelet Les Halles.
Patricia Perry: Which is not a usual spot.
Annie Sargent: It’s not, but L’Hôtel de Ville is nearby, and I think that’s probably why it kind of moved in that direction. And Rue de Rivoli, I mean…
Patricia Perry: Yeah, Rue de Rivoli always gets hit because there’s so many stores that the looters like to crash there.
Annie Sargent: Right. I was reading this morning that there were between 400 and 600 stores were looted. So this time the looting was out of control, I think.
Patricia Perry: Which I think has nothing to do with the protest.
Annie Sargent: No, it’s opportunistic.
Patricia Perry: Yeah, and maybe they knew the police weren’t going to be out in big force and, like you say, took advantage of the opportunity to crash and burn.
Annie Sargent: Now, because you live in Paris full-time, you have seen a lot of [00:31:00] these demonstrations. Do they feel ever threatening to you?
Patricia Perry: No. No.
As we’ve talked about before, protests have to be, in general, registered with the police and, where they’re going to march and those kinds of things. And so things are blocked off. The police are ready. But this one escalated to a much larger size and much more riffraffed much more quickly than the police had anticipated, so they were extremely understaffed, which is why it got so out of hand so quickly.
Like you said, you have warnings about them. Like, the day before, they tell you, "Okay, these metro stations are going to be closed." And you know immediately you don’t want to be in that area, unless you want to be part of the protest, otherwise it’s going to be massive inconvenience for transportation in those areas, which is probably the biggest thing that annoys me.
Annie Sargent: Did you hear from other friends and acquaintances in Paris about what they did?
Patricia Perry: None of my friends had really any issues. I actually had some visitors here that were staying in the Marais very close to La Bastille, but there really wasn’t anything at La Bastille, which is also often a [00:32:00] hotspot. They ran into one transportation issue, but that’s it.
Annie Sargent: So what advice do you give people, other than "Stay away from these hotspots"?
Patricia Perry: If you see a bunch of police vans or a bunch of police standing around, doing nothing, waiting for something or barriers up, something’s going to be happening there. If it’s not happening now, it will be. So best to avoid those areas, because you don’t know if it’s just going to be people walking along with their signs doing nothing, or in this case, it can develop into something more significant that could be a danger to yourself.
So, you know, I generally avoid the protests.
Annie Sargent: I avoid them too, Like, why I…? Even if I sympathize with the… I just don’t want to be in the middle of it, you know?
No, not for me.
Patricia Perry: And so you can see these things like on France 24 or the IDF Mobilite, the app, they’ll tell you which stations are going to be closed. There’s good information 24 hours in advance about what they know for sure.
Annie Sargent: Right. But it’s always 24 hours in advance.
Patricia Perry: Yeah, it’s not [00:33:00] anymore. Yeah.
Annie Sargent: I’m pretty sure there’s going to be demonstrations up until the election, at least. So I would think that every Saturday until the election, or at least most Saturdays, it’s probably going to calm down around Christmas time, but most Saturdays until the election, which is going to be some date in April.
We don’t have the date yet, but last year, last time in ’22, it was middle of April, so it’s probably going to be around that. There are going to be demonstrations every Saturday, so probably if you’re planning a trip to France, avoid the hyper city centers. If you can figure out what the traditional routes for these demonstrations are, in Toulouse, in Lyon, in other big cities, wherever you’re going to be staying, you can Google that.
It’s almost always the same, and I’m pretty sure that the government is going to crack down on manifestation sauvage, so, [00:34:00] the ones that are not declared, the ones that…
Because for a manifestation to happen, for a demonstration to happen, they have to ask for permission with prefecture.
They have to have a person who’s responsible, who’s going to be responsible for organizing this event, and that’s fine. When they do it that way, it’s great. The problem is when people just show up. it’s a big problem.
Patricia Perry: It’s a bit of a repetition of Gilets Jaunes because once again, they didn’t have very organized, you know, leaders per se, but every Saturday, there would be some kind of demonstration, march, and they were communicating via social media, And so I think it’s going to be more like that.
It’s not going to be as organized as they’re supposed to be.
Annie Sargent: Yes. Yes. And the Gilets Jaunes went on for about a year.
So it’s a long time, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that were the case again with this. And then depending on who gets elected…
Patricia Perry: It continues.
Annie Sargent: It may either calm down or continue. We [00:35:00] have this habit in France of protesting mostly right-wing presidents.
Left-wing presidents are left alone for the most part. Just look at what happened under Mitterrand and under Hollande, which were the last two left-wing presidents. There were very few demonstrations under these presidents.
So it is definitely political. There are good reasons for that. I am not, you know, taking sides in this issue, but I do know for a fact pretty much that the government is going to crack down on, on these events. I hope that they will continue listening to the things these kids… And it’s not just kids at this point. I mean, we also have…
Patricia Perry: Everybody’s joined in.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, everybody’s joined in. France is just like a lot of other countries. There’s a lot of uncertainty. There are a lot of kids who are worried about their future.
They can see what AI is doing. They’re like, "Am I even going to have a job?" Like, "Is it worth my time going to school? What should I do to [00:36:00] have…" you know, and there’s also the problem that it’s much harder now for kids to buy a house and get settled somewhere.
Patricia Perry: It’s impossible unless your family can help you. Or pass down some property to you.
There’s no 20-year-old that’s going to be buying anything here.
Annie Sargent: Exactly. My generation, and I’m 61, my mom helped me a little bit when I bought my first house, but I think she gave us $10,000 or something like that. It wasn’t a giant amount of money, and it was very nice because it just put us over the edge so we didn’t have to pay for some extra insurance that you have pay in the US, like whatever it was.
But it was decades ago, and we both had a good job. We could buy a house. It was a basic house, but we could buy a house.
Nowadays, I don’t know if anybody can do that, and kids know this, and they are very worried about their own futures, which I get. I get it. I would be worried if I was a young person as well. And also in France, we have the problem that [00:37:00] there’s been insufficient investment in education, in healthcare, in housing, in a lot of things.
Patricia Perry: The budget will be continue to be the big problem, which generates a lot of this dissatisfaction. The solution to it will generate more dissatisfaction.
Annie Sargent: Well, and it will probably generate more dissatisfaction, especially with the higher earning classes. They’re the ones who tend to vote every election. Never miss one, you know. We’re in for a bit of a rough ride. I don’t think it’s France only.
I think it’s something that we might see in a lot of Europe. But let’s keep an eye out on the things that are going to be announced. What I think would work, and the Senate has put out a proposal, the French Senate that is, a proposal, in January 2026, that was suggesting using more, making it possible for the police to get to the hotspots faster by using all the cameras that have been [00:38:00] installed in cities and make them work with AI so that the AI can say, "Hey, there’s a fire at this spot.
There’s a grouping at this spot. There’s somebody who fell down at this spot," and send the police directly. The AI doesn’t solve the problem, obviously, but it can alert.
Patricia Perry: It’s just the warning system.
Annie Sargent: Why? Because if you have eyeballs looking at thousands of cameras… we’re not as… you know, we can’t catch everything, obviously. So hopefully this is the direction it’s going to go into, and the police will be able to not be spread so thin.
And I don’t know what they’re going to do about the looting, but I mean, these people have their phones on them, okay?
So in France, if it’s qualified as un vol en réunion, then that means that they can subpoena your phone data. If it’s not en réunion, if it’s just one person steals something and runs off, probably they’re not, the police are not going to be [00:39:00] able to subpoena phone data.
But it has to be a group thing. If there’s a group, then they can say, "Okay, we’ll subpoena phone data," and they’ll be able to catch these people. But where are they going to put them? Like…
Patricia Perry: And you know, I will say like for tourists, I don’t think any tourist areas were hit, you know…
Annie Sargent: Yeah, not… not really. I mean, they closed the Louvre for a few hours, but it was more of a like solidarité, whatever.
Patricia Perry: Yeah, it’s not necessarily for safety, it’s just because that they want to support the protest movement, so that’s a whole different thing.
Annie Sargent: Yes, yes, yes. In other cities like in, Limoges is not a very touristy city, but…
Patricia Perry: And that was pure arson.
Annie Sargent: That was pure arson. They’ve arrested someone. Sadly, he was an extreme left-wing person. His own father had been arrested for arson, for many things. Anyway, a guy who live… French guy, I must say. French guy, not a foreigner.[00:40:00]
Patricia Perry: Not an immigrant.
Annie Sargent: Not an immigrant. Who just lives with his parents at 34 and has a very strong anti-system ideology, extreme left-wing ecology sort of people like the green, but like the green plus, plus, plus, plus. He had been on the radar. And yeah, he found the opportunity to break in the city hall and burn it down. They’re going to have to do a lot more surveillance, sadly. You know, intelligence, I guess they’ll call it, not surveillance, but it’s the same thing.
Patricia Perry: Preventative.
Annie Sargent: But it’s not going to– it’s not going to be a problem for visitors, I don’t think.
Patricia Perry: No, I think they’re very good about early on protecting, you know, visitor zones. And, as you say, the staff might choose to close the institutions, you know.
Annie Sargent: I saw one video that showed some Asian visitors, Asian ladies that were pushing around their suitcases in Paris, [00:41:00] and you could see the smoke and the…
Okay, that’s the only one I’ve seen, and I don’t even know if it was real. So hopefully not too many visitors were hit.
The people I feel sorry for are the people who have stores that got looted because it’s going to be a while before they can recoup any of that, but…
Patricia Perry: Yeah, and I was a store owner in some of those areas, you know, I think you have to make the investment in, the bollards they can quickly put down and protect their storefront, and be able to do that, you…
Annie Sargent: Unbreakable glass.
Patricia Perry: Yeah, they have to be able to do that very quickly and, you know, shut it down, get people out, and close it up.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Security, I mean, they’re going to have to invest, it’s like everything else. Invest in your security. Because times are a-changing. The other day I was at a friend’s house and we were in the garage because he was helping me with fixing something. And after a few minutes, I look up and I saw their camera was looking at me.
I’m like, "Oh, hello camera." And I like, I… You know? So there are places you just, you go and people are [00:42:00] very, very security aware, and they should be. They should be. It’s become necessary to do that and to be on the lookout. But for visitors, I don’t think it changes much. Be aware. Stay away… if you see cops, if you see smoke, eh, yeah.
Patricia Perry: Yeah. Don’t go that way.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
And don’t book… Like, on Saturdays especially, you don’t want to be anywhere near those , hyper city center places.
Patricia Perry: And ideally someplace close you can walk to, you know.
Annie Sargent: Not too far. But it’s like that. In Paris, you went two streets down and you were fine.
Patricia Perry: Yeah
Annie Sargent: Even in Paris, even in Lyon, in Bordeaux. I interviewed someone from Bordeaux, and she was right in the middle of it, because she was by the big, beautiful Place de la Bourse.
Patricia Perry: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: That’s where these demonstrations happen often. And so perhaps this coming year, when you’re booking a place, don’t go like…
Patricia Perry: yeah, I mean, like I say, Place de la [00:43:00] République, classic.
Annie Sargent: Oh, for sure. And I’ve said that for years. Like… don’t.
Patricia Perry: Yeah, it’s always– That’s been true for like probably 50 years, you know.
Annie Sargent: Yes. Just don’t stay at the Place de la République, that’s it.
Like, you know? Or right around the surrounding. But I don’t mean far away, like even a street or two, that’s all, you know.
If you’re like one metro stop away, you’re fine.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we don’t want to scare anybody, but I just wanted to, for people to hear it from people who live here and have experience. We’ve seen a few rodeos.
Patricia Perry: And I’ve never been scared in Paris, you know. It’s really a safe city from my perspective. I mean, compared to big cities I’ve lived in in the US, you know. There are virtually no guns here. Only the police and maybe a few people have guns, and that really changes the equation.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, but you’re from Texas. You’re not afraid of anything.
Patricia Perry: I’m not scared easy.
Annie Sargent: You’re not scared easy at all. All right. Thank you so much Patricia.
Patricia Perry: Thanks Annie. Take care of yourself.[00:44:00]
Annie Sargent: Thanks. Au revoir.
Patricia Perry: Au revoir.
5 Helena Fedorec
Annie Sargent: Bonjour Helena Fedorec and welcome back to Join Us in France. How are you?
Helena Fedorec: I’m really good, Annie. Good to see you.
Annie Sargent: Good to see you, too.
So, let’s talk about these October 17th riots briefly.
Now, you weren’t in France on the 17th, but you were there before, the two weeks before. Is that right?
Helena Fedorec: Well, for longer than that. I was there a month, and in the week beforehand, I actually saw a demonstration in Aix-en-Provence. I saw a different kind of demonstration in Arles, and I saw the results of a demonstration in Marseille.
Annie Sargent: Okay. Yeah, so the reason why I wanted to talk to you even though you were not here on the 17th is that I’m pretty sure that these demonstrations are going to go on. They’re not going to be just that one time because as far as I can tell, there’s not going to be a resolution until at least the election. And, keep in mind, the Gilets Jaunes went on [00:45:00] for a year, so French people are tenacious and it’s not going to stop like that.
So, in what you saw, did you feel threatened at any time?
Helena Fedorec: No. And I, something I want to say is that I’ve been in Paris, not this year but a previous year, where there was a very big and very violent demonstration with tear gas, with police forming line-ups with their shields. There was a lot of crackers, a lot of flares, and it would’ve been very easy to be very frightened.
I think it was in Place de la République or Nation. And actually, once I’d got over, okay, this isn’t something I see back at home in England, I just walked on by, and I genuinely didn’t feel threatened to keep out of the arena of what’s going on. So this time round, I was actually leaving Aix-en-Provence, the city, just as the first one started, and there had been no warning that I’m aware of.
And there were hundreds of young people running through the streets [00:46:00] and them leaping around shouting, a lot of them banners and placards. The point where I did feel slightly, ooh, this is different to what I’ve seen previously, was that there was an element who were dressed all in black with masks, black balaclavas, and that reminded me of something we’ve seen here in England where some extremist groups are, and often they’re externally funded are… Well, I just call them the bully boys. I think they’re called something else in France.
Annie Sargent: Black blocks.
Helena Fedorec: Yeah, that was the only point that I thought, "Whoa." Not threatened, but I thought, I don’t like this. And then seeing some of them, you know, carrying big fire extinguishers through the streets and thinking, okay, there’s only one thing you’re going to do with that, and you’re not going to be putting out a fire.
You’re going to be battering in something. I’m not aware of any major damage afterwards, because I did actually check online. But anyway, that was that.
And actually, very shortly [00:47:00] afterwards, I passed through the place where it had been, Place de la Rotonde I think it’s called, the center, and there was no sign of anything having happened.
Then I was in Arles. There was a very different demonstration, which was actually students again. It was about the education cuts, and it was also about gay rights, trans rights, and that was a really friendly one. They just marched through the street. They were singing. Bystanders were really nonplussed.
They just carried on drinking coffee. I remember there were four police officers, and they were on their electric bikes having a good chat. Somebody said to them, "Is there going to be trouble?" And they turned round and said, "No, this lot are fine." So that was over and done with. It was actually a very friendly one.
And then when I got to Marseille, so while I didn’t actually see any of the demonstrations or riots, whatever, there was a building you could see that, and it was an educational building. You could see that the huge wooden door had been burnt, and then the Lycée Victor [00:48:00] Hugo had been barricaded, and there were placards and banners on it basically saying, in French, "In support of the students the place is closed."
And there was a tension in the air, but I didn’t see any of the violent stuff.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah. Marseille unfortunately had a lot of looting.
Helena Fedorec: After I left, yeah, and I was really sad to see the town hall that I’d visited had been attacked.
Annie Sargent: Did you have to change your plans as a result of these strikes?
Helena Fedorec: No. And I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t change my plans anyway. You might get some traffic disruptions or whatever, but in terms of, are you asking would I… did I miss out on a city or anything like that? No, I didn’t. No. No. And I don’t think I would, to be honest because, personally, I’m only one person, I’m not with children, but personally, I would say you avoid the areas, you know the ones with very broad streets that people can march [00:49:00] down, the ones with particular monuments that are, you know, where people can jump up and down and sort of wave flags.
I was surprised at the extent of looting, and I question where that’s coming from. Certainly not from the students that I saw. But I don’t think I would change my plans. Just use your common sense. Be careful, and yeah, don’t be an idiot.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Walk in the other direction if this happens.
Helena Fedorec: Exactly. Exactly.
Annie Sargent: Do these events change how you view France? I mean, you’ve been here many times.
Helena Fedorec: I have. Yeah, and I’ve seen, as I said, demonstrations previously. I think … So how can I put it? I am aware that the whole of Europe, and America, and other parts of the world are facing particular challenges. All right? That this is, it’s new in one sense, but in another sense it’s not new because the French, they feel strongly about something, my goodness do they let you know about it.
And that’s never fearful for me. It doesn’t change my [00:50:00] feelings about coming to France. It would make me think carefully probably about where I go, and I think probably timing. So I’m aware that the big election is in April. Is that correct?
Annie Sargent: Correct. Yeah, we don’t have a date yet, but it’s going to be in April, yeah.
Helena Fedorec: Yeah. So I’m not saying that I wouldn’t come to France in March, April, or May, but that I would be quite careful about where I went.
Because France is a big country, very, very diverse. Very diverse. Yeah, there are pockets where there are likely to be those tensions. I’m aware of… So for example, when I was in Marseille, you’re very aware of the areas of great poverty there, and the tensions that are there for a number of reasons.
It’s a wonderful city. That’s the place where I want to go back to.
I’d say I’m going back. I love France. Don’t expect Emily in Paris, but just be realistic. Yeah.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Very good.
Helena Fedorec: Yeah. And another thing, Annie, I’ve learned, because I’ve looked at a lot of the [00:51:00] social media reports, and even some of the, you know, mainstream coverage, I just always bear in mind that they look for the sensational, and they look for what creates fear, creates chaos, clickbaits, all those kinds of things.
It’s just making sure that I know the source of the information, and, you know, where it’s coming from, who does it benefit, and what’s the bigger picture. Is it just this bit or is there a bigger story?
Annie Sargent: Right. Is there anything you wish you had known about these sorts of protests?
Helena Fedorec: I mean, I follow French news quite a lot, so I was aware of some of the issues and just quite how serious they are. Probably some of them I hadn’t taken as seriously.
If I give an example, it would be the arguments over the retirement age, because I come from a country that has dealt with this, that has put up the retirement age, you know, and it will go up to [00:52:00] 70, and I understand that.
I understand the issues around the fears around… It’s a changing world. It is a changing world, and the threat of AI and education needs and so on.
I think I should have, yeah, I’d probably, before I went to France, would’ve read more carefully in those areas. But that’s the thing, that you go somewhere and you just learn.
Just listen. Just listen to people and look and, you know, don’t sound off with your own opinions…
Annie Sargent: Very good.
Helena Fedorec: …As visitor. Yeah.
Annie Sargent: So do you have any advice for people who might be considering coming or anything that strikes you as good advice?
Helena Fedorec: Look, my advice would be don’t buy into the fear and panic. Do go to France. It is a wonderful country, as is the whole of Europe. Be sensible. Just check out beforehand where you’re going and whether there are any particular issues you need to be aware of. Be aware of whatever the official travel warnings are from your country.
Like, I checked, and France is [00:53:00] not on high alert according to air travel advice in England.
So yeah, it’s just being sensible really. Go, enjoy France. That’s what I would say. Just be aware we live in a changing world.
Annie Sargent: Definitely we are. Nothing will stop Helena!
I love you.
Helena Fedorec: No. No it won’t. And the great thing for me, because as you know I stay in hostels, and just meeting people from all over the world, you know, and sharing what’s happening in their country and why is it happening, and it’s important. It’s important.
Annie Sargent: There’s two things to know about you. You’re not a high budget traveler, and you take public transportation.
Helena Fedorec: Always. Always.
Annie Sargent: The bus, the trains, the trams, the whatever. You’re not going to be renting a limo or an Uber.
Helena Fedorec: I love sitting in cafes, I love staying in hostels, and I love traveling on buses and trains. Yeah.
Annie Sargent: Right. So you see real France.
Helena Fedorec: Can I remind people, like we saw those pictures of the looting and stuff like that, but [00:54:00] we also saw the pictures of the following day when in every single one of those locations, ordinary people came out and did this massive work of cleaning up the streets, scrubbing off the graffiti, and saying, "This is our country. We’re proud of our country. It’s shameful what these people have done." Just remember the ordinary French people.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Helena Fedorec: Everyone has frustrations, everyone has complaints, and in the end, we’re all decent human beings, I hope.
Annie Sargent: Thank you so much, Helena. That’s wonderful. Merci beaucoup.
Helena Fedorec: À la prochaine.
Annie Sargent: À la prochaine.
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6 Janet Boyd
Annie Sargent: Bonjour, Janet Boyd, and welcome to Join Us in France
Boyd J: Hi. Thank you for having me. Nice to see you again.
Annie Sargent: Nice to see you as well. So, I would like to ask you a few questions regarding these unrest, riots, whatever you want to call it. Where were you on Saturday, October 17th?
Boyd J: I was in Montpellier where I am studying in southwest of France, and I’ve been here since the middle of September, I’ve seen a number of [00:55:00] manifestations about different issues in the Place de la Comédie. First ones about climate, something was about a detention center in Béziers.
And so there’s… I got used to the regular culture of activities. You know, on Saturdays, people will, you know, will make their voices heard, and one of them was a student protest that was primarily young people.
But apart from where I was on Saturday the 17th, which I– we were anticipating because I’m in a language school, and people had explained to us that this, you know, was organized and going to be happening.
You know, it became apparent it was going to start at two o’clock. It was organized, and so I decided around twenty to two that I would go around the corner to the Rue de la Republique and watch from a café. So that’s where I was. I was at Café Palme and, you know, so many people were pouring in.
This was not the march yet. There were just hundreds, maybe thousands of people walking to the square. I watched as they [00:56:00] came round. It was families. It was you know, young, old, people with strollers, all handmade signs on scraps of cardboard, and I watched for a good two hours, and it was really interesting just to see people come together.
Annie Sargent: So did you see anybody wearing all black and gas masks and ski goggles or…
Boyd J: I did.
Annie Sargent: …pool goggles and things like that?
Boyd J: So the atmosphere was really festive in the beginning. There was a marching band that came through and stopped at the end of the my street, and they serenaded the police presence. I should talk about them a little bit, I think, with two peppy songs that the crowd participated in.
But sort of going in and out of those, you know, the regular marchers who were… It seemed to be mostly young people clad all the way, all in black, some with masks. I can never say. I always say the Turkish dessert instead of the pronunciation for the face covering. Balaclava?
Annie Sargent: Yeah, I know what you [00:57:00] mean. I’m not sure I’d do any better than you.
Boyd J: Okay. So, yeah, but they were– They would travel in two or threes. They were kind of furtive, skirting in and out, but they weren’t… It wasn’t like they were invested in you know, the protest that was, like, an organized… It’s like when, you know, you have a march in the States, and people are just moving along and holding up signs.
Yeah, no, I did see them, and when I was at the café, one of the protesters sat down next to me. He was taking a break, and he was not one of them, one of those clad in black, but he had swimming goggles around his neck just in case.
Annie Sargent: Right. We should explain that people bring those because if there’s tear gas it saves you from having…
And people usually when they go to a manifestation like this, they will take like, you know, eye drops and things like that just in case. But you were right in the heart of it, it sounds like.
And you didn’t stay so late that it got out of control?
Boyd J: I should just mention some of the casseurs as they’re, I later learned they were called, they would jump up on top of the tram [00:58:00] stations and sort of like call, you know, they were orchestrating things to each other, not to the crowd. I just would add, at the end of the street when I was going out to the café, there was a police presence where they blocked the route with three vans and multiple police, and they started checking bags.
They wouldn’t let people to this, because it’s a main thoroughfare with shops. They just wanted to make sure there wasn’t, you know, people complied. It wasn’t controversial. It wasn’t, you know, as many of the signs were anti-police, they weren’t… they were cooperating with the police.
At around two hours into… So I had a coffee, and then I wound up having a beer, over the two hours. And then I got a, somebody started covering their face with their shirt, and then I got a whiff of tear gas. And it became a, you know, it was like, "Ooh, what is this? I don’t know what this smell," you know, and then it became apparent, so I decided to leave, but it also started to rain, so it was all kind of convenient.
I went back to my apartment, which was just around the corner. I was texting with a fellow student who couldn’t leave her apartment because the police weren’t [00:59:00] letting people in and out, and she said, "If you don’t let me in my apart…" Well, she was actually going back to her apartment. She said, "If you don’t let me in the apartment, I’m stuck in the protest."
But then we could smell the tear gas later, about an hour later, we had to close our windows because it was getting more… But, you know, I didn’t go to the Place de la Comédie later, but it was being streamed on Instagram. My friend and I were watching this pretty much unfold live. And it became apparent that, you know, the people that were left were not the people that I saw for the first two hours that were, you know…
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. It had changed.
Boyd J: Very much.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Boyd J: And you know, there were some small fires in the Place de la Comédie, and there was one over, a larger one by the train station. I didn’t witness them firsthand, but it turned out that it was pretty… It was, I don’t know if amusing is the right word, but the next day you could see that all the shops that had been, the windows had been broken and what had been looted were really the things that are popular with younger people, like North [01:00:00] Face and Doc Martens and Foot Locker.
So they were– And jewelry stores. So it wasn’t a statement so much it was, as it was looting, in my opinion.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, that was looting. Yeah, it’s kind of crazy what happened. You didn’t feel threatened at any time, right?
Boyd J: No. No, I mean, not for the time I chose to be out. But if I had gone to the… you know, I actively chose not to go after dark, to the Place de la Comedy where I would have. Yeah, that would’ve been dumb.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, that would have been a very different business. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
That’s the whole point is, you know, be aware of,
situational awareness is really important. Does that change how you feel about France? Or…
Boyd J: Not at all.
Annie Sargent: Okay.
Boyd J: I mean, it’s part of the culture. It’s part of… I’m reading in The New York Times how it’s getting reported in the States, and it is a little aggravating that all of the media is just the people doing vandalism. It’s not really capturing the spirit of the student protests, the kids, the middle school to high schoolers, because I’m [01:01:00] very aware of their complaints, that the government did acknowledge the first day of their manifestations.
Not that they’ve changed anything or I don’t know what they plan to do, but yeah, no, I plan to come back in the spring. So, people at home are texting me, emailing me, "Are you okay? It’s chaos." Someone actually called to say, "What the hell did you do over there to cause such chaos?"
Annie Sargent: So like, your friends or your family, what’d you tell them about this? Besides, "Yeah, this is normal. This is par for the course in France." Do you have specific tips for people if they find themselves in this sort of situation?
Boyd J: Yeah. I mean, I grew up in and around New York City, so I have some city smarts to begin with. So if you have those, that kind of sensibility, it’s not nearly as scary, I don’t think. You can read the crowd, you can read the atmosphere and the energy. I mean, there were people wearing yellow vests, but they didn’t seem to be like the Gilets Jaunes.
I think they were just sympathetic or expressing some kind of [01:02:00] solidarity. They were some of the peaceful marchers. Someone said to me, one of our tour guides said, "You know, the French, their national pastime is complaining." And then she said, you know, "But their life is so good." And someone said, "Their life is so good because they complain." And I said, "Yeah." I took that to heart and I think it’s important that the legitimate concerns be heard, and I understand the frustrations of the…
Go ahead, sorry.
Annie Sargent: Right, right. But the thing is be heard by whom? Because we have a president who’s at the end of his term. He’s a lame duck. He’s not going to do anything. He’s not famous for doing a lot anyway, as we have seen demonstrated time and time again. So be heard by…? By the candidates who are going to…?
Boyd J: I suppose the candidates, and that’s a whole nother bag of worms right now.
Annie Sargent: See, this is not… this is not how protests typically happen in France. It’s not… Typically, six months before any election, we don’t have these sorts of things going on.
It’s going to be right after an [01:03:00] election because people are unhappy with the way the country voted or whatever. But six months before an election, I’m like, "Uh, I don’t know."
Yeah, they want to be listened to. They’re going to get platitudes because Macron is going to say, "All right, all right, all right." But he won’t do a thing.
So, it’s an interesting conundrum that we’re in right now in France, and I don’t think it’s going to get that much better, quickly. Because there is a very deep desire for major change.
And you have the people who think the extreme right will do it, and the people who think the extreme left will do it.
And they’re very loud, and the center has proven that they can’t do it. So I don’t know what to do. We’re going to have to… to do some serious thinking.
Boyd J: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. At any rate, thank you so much for talking to me because that’s very interesting. And again, this is because you were in the city center. I was not in any city center on Saturday. I saw absolutely nothing. 99% [01:04:00] of the country, nothing was happening. It’s just in hyper city centers, in places where people go demonstrate, there were demonstrations going on, and much bigger demonstrations than was anticipated.
And I think they will continue. The demonstrations next Saturday are going to be a problem again, and they’re going to send more police, so there might be more issues. The more police it seems, the more problems there are.
So, yeah. Wait and see. But, it’s good to know that this does not discourage you from coming to France, even though you were right in the middle of it.
You were smart, and you didn’t get hurt, and that’s what matters.
Boyd J: Thank you.
Annie Sargent: Merci beaucoup, Janet.
Boyd J: De rien.
Annie Sargent: Au revoir.
Boyd J: Au revoir.
Copyright
Annie Sargent: The join us in France Travel Podcast is written, hosted, and produced by Annie Sargent and copyright 2026 by [01:05:00] Addicted to France. It is released under a Creative Commons, attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives license.[01:06:00]
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