508 - Join Us in France Travel Podcast

Categories: France How To, French Food & Wine

Discussed in this Episode

Here are the attractions and places mentioned in the episode: Tavel
Lyon
Montpellier
Château Trenquevedel
Avignon
E. Guigal (Côte Rôtie)
Maison Pic
Auberge de Cassagne (Le Pontet)
Châteauneuf-du-Pape
Perrin Family Cave
Le Verger du Pape
Valrhona Chocolate Museum (Tain-l'Hermitage)
Les Épicurieux (Côte Rôtie)
Hermitage Hill
Café des Fédérations (Lyon).

[00:00:16] Annie Sargent: This is Join Us in France, Episode 508. Cinq cent huit.

Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent, and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France. In today’s episode, I chat with Jennifer and Emma Jerzyk, who are a mother-daughter pair, as they share their delightful journey through the Rhône Valley, between Tavel, which is a little north of Nîmes, and Dijon. And they also include Lyon, of course, the food capital of France.

Their focus was AOC wines and gourmet cuisine, and they had some amazing experiences. This episode is a treat for food lovers, wine enthusiasts, and anyone who loves France. It offers a blend of personal stories and practical tips for anyone planning their own foodie adventure.

Podcast supporters

[00:01:12] Annie Sargent: The podcast is supported by donors and listeners who buy my tours and services, including my itinerary consult service, my GPS self-guided tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app, or take a day trip with me around the Southwest in my electric car. You can browse all of that on my boutique, joinusinfrance.com/boutique.

And remember that Patreon supporters get the episode ad-free and as soon as it’s ready. Be like them, follow the link in the show notes.

Magazine segment

[00:01:43] Annie Sargent: For the magazine part of the podcast after my chat with the Jerzyk ladies today, I’ll discuss all of the things we’re discussing about in France the second half of August 2024, and I’ll also tell you what is safe to bring when visiting Paris and what you should leave at home.

Bonjour, Jennifer and Emma Jerzyk, and welcome to Join Us in France.

[00:02:15] Jennier Jerzyk: Hi, Annie!

[00:02:16] Emma Jerzyk: So happy to be here.

Mother-Daughter trip in the Rhône Valley

[00:02:17] Annie Sargent: Lovely to talk to you. We’re going to have a conversation about your trip that you took in April 2024, and you went up the Rhône Valley. You started in Tavel and you ended in Lyon. What was the occasion for this mother-daughter trip?

[00:02:34] Emma Jerzyk: Maybe I’ll answer that. So, my mom moved to France, it’s been almost two years now. She moved to France upon retirement. She initially moved around a bunch and now she lives in Montpellier. And so this was my first time coming over to France to visit her. And additionally, I love wine.

I live in California and have a lot of wine here. And the Rhône River Valley is one of my favorite wine producing regions, and so I wanted to visit my mom in Montpellier and also go wine tasting.

[00:03:08] Annie Sargent: Sounds wonderful. And Jennifer, you were okay with that plan, huh?

[00:03:12] Jennier Jerzyk: I was A-OK with that.

[00:03:14] Annie Sargent: Okay. So tell me about, we’re going to start with your favorite things and then work our way down. Perhaps you can tell us where you went first, cause we know more or less where the area is, but give us some details about the area you visited.

[00:03:28] Emma Jerzyk: Do you want to start, mom?

Chateau Trenquevedel

[00:03:29] Jennier Jerzyk: So, we started out in the AOC region of Tavel, which is unique in France in that it only produces rosé wines. And we were very familiar with one of the producers, Chateau Trenquevedel because we had drank a lot of their rosé in the United States. So I was really thrilled to get an appointment to visit with Céline de Moulin, who’s the wife of the winemaker family, and she gave us just an absolutely extraordinary tour and tastings. And what we learned was that almost all of their production is exported to the United States.

They are part of a distribution system that is owned by Kermit Lynch, who is based in California, or the company’s based in California, and I think it was many, many years ago, they formed a relationship with Kermit Lynch. I can’t even buy that wine here in the south of France, unless I go directly to the vineyard, because all of it winds up in the US. So that was interesting.

[00:04:35] Annie Sargent: Right, so how did you arrange this? You just knew the name and you called the winery?

[00:04:41] Jennier Jerzyk: I found them online and I sent emails to, not just this one, but all of the wineries that we visited and I certainly, there were very few of them that I think you could have walked into. So it’s always, I think, a good idea to try and send them an email or call in advance to get an appointment. And I just think, you know, we got very personal attention from all of the places that we visited.

It was a real pleasure.

[00:05:07] Annie Sargent: Did you have to pay for any of these visits?

[00:05:10] Jennier Jerzyk: Yes, we did. In some cases, if we bought wine, they, you know, said you don’t need to pay, but there were some instances. Emma, maybe you want to talk about the tasting that we did at E Guigal, because those are very special wines. Do you want to go into a little detail there about that tasting?

[00:05:30] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah. So, and also to go back to your earlier question, Annie I had come up with a sort of short list of wineries that I wanted to visit because I love the Rhône River Valley. And so I’ve tasted a lot of different wines from around The Rhône, and particularly wines that are imported through Kermit Lynch, because I live in California and we drink a lot of imported wine. And so that was how we came up with the list of wineries. And then I sent it to my mom and had her call around and make appointments for me cause she’s got a little bit extra, you know, more time than I do.

[00:06:06] Annie Sargent: Mm hmm.

[00:06:07] Emma Jerzyk:

E Guigal Wines

[00:06:07] Emma Jerzyk: We did a number of different tastings. I believe all of them we had to pay or the payment was waived because we bought wine. But one of the more expensive tastings that we did was at E Guigal, which is a very large, I would call it really more of a domain, they have multiple labels. But their flagship location is up in Côte Rotie which is at the very northern tip of the Rhône River Valley. And they have a series of wines that are very highly priced but are also very top quality Shiraz what’s produced in the northern Rhône River Valley. And they’re called the Lala. They all start with La, and there are a couple different ones of sort of varying intensity of the amount of Shiraz in them.

And so we did a tasting there, because those wines are very, very expensive in order to taste those wines, it was a couple hundred Euros just for the tasting. And then you could browse and shop, and potentially buy any of the wines from the various Guigal labels.

[00:07:17] Annie Sargent: So how expensive is this wine to purchase in France?

[00:07:21] Emma Jerzyk: About 400 Euros a bottle.

[00:07:24] Annie Sargent: Geez, that’s really expensive.

[00:07:26] Emma Jerzyk: Yes.

[00:07:26] Annie Sargent: And in the US it’s twice that?

[00:07:28] Emma Jerzyk: Not quite. It’s actually because it’s like such an expensive wine, it’s actually, typically pretty similar, maybe a little bit more expensive in the United States than it is in Europe, and in France in particular, just because, you know, it’s already a really expensive wine.

[00:07:46] Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah. I don’t think I’ve ever purchased a bottle of wine that was 400 euros. I don’t think so.

[00:07:53] Emma Jerzyk: I don’t think you would be alone, I think that’s the case for a lot of people. It’s only really crazy people like me.

[00:07:59] Annie Sargent: Okay.

[00:08:00] Jennier Jerzyk: Well, unfortunately, most of the wine in France does not cost that much.

[00:08:04] Annie Sargent: No, no. I mean, to most French people, 40 is a fortune. So 400 is like, oh no. But if it’s a really special product, why not?

[00:08:14] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, I think it’s like, do you, are you using the wine as like a utility or, you know, when you get into sort of the upper reaches of how expensive a bottle can be, it’s really about, you know, the artistic value of the bottle and of the domain itself. I mean, a lot of these domains and chateaus are owned by families, have been in families for generations.

One of my favorite producers in the Northern Rhône is J. L. Chave, which we weren’t able to visit because they don’t take visitors. But he, you know, the current winemaker, whose name is Jean Louis Chave, I think he’s like the 14th or 16th generation in that family who has been farming Shiraz on the Hill of Hermitage.

And I think that’s like a really special thing. And to me that, you know, is worth sort of a more expensive price tag to get to sort of participate. It feels like participating in history to me. And that’s like, to me that’s really exciting.

Value of Wine

[00:09:16] Annie Sargent: Wow. Okay. I wish you were closer because with the bootcamp, we had a wine visit with a very small family owned winery that sells wines, you know, between 10 and 20 Euros really. And they have a Shiraz that I really like. It is on, you know, one of the more expensive ones, but it is, it is lovely.

And I want, you know, in the back of my mind, I’m always thinking, is there really a big difference between a 20 Euro bottle and a 400 Euro bottle? There probably is. I’m just not a wine connoisseur.

[00:09:49] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way. And I think for a lot of people, honestly, maybe not. For me, it’s something, you know, this is a field that I care about. And I really enjoy sort of being able to pick apart those differences. But I think at the end of the day, wine is about enjoyment and it’s about whether you enjoy that bottle of wine. And to me, learning about wine, I think a lot of people feel like they have to learn about wine in order to enjoy it, and I think it’s really the reverse.

It’s you enjoy the wine and you can learn about it if you want, and I think the learning about it helps you identify more and other wines that you might like. Like, you might drink something and think, why do I love this so much? And you might learn about the production of the wine and learn certain things that you enjoy. The varietal, where it was produced, how it was produced, and that might help you identify other wines that you might like in the future.

And I think that’s sort of the value of learning about wine, but do you have to buy a 400 Euro bottle of wine in order to really enjoy wine? Absolutely not.

[00:10:56] Annie Sargent: Right. So along your way there, I’m not sure if you stopped in Avignon, but Avignon has one of these wine stores where you can buy a shot of wine. So you walk in, they have all these… it’s like a wine vending machine of sorts, you get a credit card, you put some credits on there, you tap your credit card on the wine you want to try and it’ll debit a few euros, and it serves you, it pours you a little serving of wine just so you can taste it. And that’s, that’s a very fun way to try more expensive wines, I think, and side by side with the cheap ones as well. Because even if you pay 12 Euros for a small serving, that’s fine, you know, you just wanted to taste it.

So that’s. I’m going to try and find the name of that place, and there’s several places in France that do this. It’s not unique to Avignon, I’ve done things like that in other places.

[00:11:53] Jennier Jerzyk: There’s one in Dijon now. They have a new wine museum, but it’s more than that. And they have a big tasting room where you can put money on a credit card and taste. They had hundreds of bottles you could taste.

[00:12:04] Annie Sargent: Right. Do you really want to taste a hundred wines? Probably not. That would not end well.

[00:12:11] Emma Jerzyk: My mom and I had previously done a wine trip up to Oregon. Since I live in California, we’ve done a road trip to Oregon to mostly taste a lot of Pinot Noir, because that’s a lot of what’s grown in Oregon. But we had sort of made the mistake, or I should say I made the mistake of overscheduling us.

And we, at one point we had gone into four wineries in one day. And you really do get palate fatigue. It’s really hard actually to taste wines at that point once you’ve had like 10 or 12. It’s really, really difficult and frankly kind of unpleasant at that point, I’d say, kind of takes the enjoyment out of it.

[00:12:48] Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, you know. This place in Avignon is called Le Vin Devant Soi, and they are not paying me to say that it’s a nice place, but it is a nice place. And when I went, they were very friendly. They have people trying wines all the time.

And it’s really across, you know, it’s really close to the Palais des Papes. I’ll put a link in the show notes as well for people who want to check that out. All right. So did you do just wine on this trip or did you do some other things?

Auberge de Cassagne near Avignon in Le Pontet

[00:13:18] Emma Jerzyk: We did mostly wine. But I would say we also did a lot of rest and relaxation. So maybe mom, would you want to talk about our time at Auberge de Cassagne and the spa?

Auberge de Cassagne near Avignon

[00:13:30] Jennier Jerzyk: The first night, we stopped in a small town just east of Avignon called Le Pontet, and I think it probably at one point was on the outskirts of Avignon, but now is kind of surrounded by the outskirts of Avignon. But a lovely, was it four stars, I think, four or five star Auberge, Auberge de Cassagne, and I have to say it was one of those like really fun surprises.

We got there, they came right out to the car and greeted us, took our luggage in, brought us to the reception desk and said how happy they were that we were there. And gosh, had we had lunch? Because if not, they had a table for us in their lovely restaurant, and we had not had lunch at that point, so they ushered us right in, we hadn’t even gone up to our room.

We had a lovely gourmet lunch. They had a Sommelier, multiple courses, it was really, really nice. Then, afterwards, they came and got us in the restaurant, took us up to our room. And the rooms were spacious, I mean, these were not, you know, what I have experienced as sort of like the typical European hotels. Lots of room, a very large bathroom with a spa tub, as well as a shower. A lovely little outdoor terrace.

This would be clearly be some place you’d want to come, you know, for a long weekend, sort of of R&R. And they had a full spa, so they had an indoor swimming pool, they had an outdoor pool. My daughters had gotten me a birthday gift of a spa treatment, which was absolutely extraordinary. And then we had a reservation to have dinner again in their restaurant in the evening. So, just a real treat, fun, and honestly, by American standards, it was not as expensive you know, not as expensive as spent in the United States, really.

And owned by a family, and the owner was there greeting us, talking to us. Really, really lovely.

[00:15:34] Annie Sargent: So I didn’t ask you this, but you did this whole trip with a car, right?

[00:15:38] Jennier Jerzyk: Yes. Yes, we were.

[00:15:40] Annie Sargent: Sorry, Emma, you were going to jump in.

[00:15:41] Emma Jerzyk: Oh, I was just going to say I think Auberge de Cassagne is, it’s just such a lovely place to spend a few days. We only ended up spending one day there during the road trip. Since obviously, you know, it was a road trip, we were going from place to place. And so we only ended up staying one or maybe two nights in each place where we stayed.

But I have already told my mom that I would like to come back again in early April, and I would like to spend a few days and nights at Auberge de Cassagne because it was such a lovely place. It was the, I have to say, the beds were very comfortable. I’m very discerning when it comes to a nice mattress.

And I loved the beds at Auberge de Cassagne. The spa facilities were beautiful. The lunch and the dinner that we had there was, was very, very nice. It was really a wonderful kind of retreat is how I would frame it. It’s the kind of place where you kind of want to go there and you want to stay there and lounge and go to the spa and just relax all day.

It’s not the kind of place where you want to go there just to stay there overnight and then sort of during the day you’re out doing a bunch of other things. It’s kind of the place where you want to like go and sort of plant yourself for a couple days to just kind of relax and get away.

[00:16:57] Annie Sargent: That sounds wonderful. I like it. I will make a good note of that. That sounds great. All right.

Maison Pic, three Michelin stars

[00:17:04] Emma Jerzyk: I was just going to say also, so the next day after that, we did, what I think for me was also kind of the peak of the trip. And that’s a little bit of a double entendre because we went to Maison Pic, which is a three Michelin starred restaurant in the Rhône River Valley owned and operated by Anne Sophie Pic, which is one of, she’s one of, I think, only three female chefs who has three Michelin stars in the world.

And so, she’s a very impressive lady. And everything was in full force when we were there. It was a really, really incredible dinner that we had there. And then on top of the restaurant itself, it’s also an Auberge. So once you’re done with your wonderful three Michelin star dinner, all you have to do is waddle upstairs and fall into bed, which I think is about what my mom and I did.

And again, lovely accommodations, a beautiful setting, a real sort of retreat from urban life. A great chance to relax and enjoy our time there. And of course, you know, if you’re into fine dining and gourmet food, I mean, it was a real standout meal over from, you know, my entire life.

And I’ve gone to a lot of really great restaurants, I’m very lucky to say. It was a really, really special experience to get to go there. And of course, Anne Sophie came out during our dinner and, you know, spoke to everyone at every table, and it was just such an honor to be able to meet her, and to eat her amazing, and wonderful food.

[00:18:44] Annie Sargent: So describe how the meal goes, because some people who are listening to us have never done a Michelin, especially a three Michelin star restaurant. Describe the proceedings.

[00:18:56] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, so I think it’s actually, it’s both sort of maybe stuffier, but even in some ways less stuffy than people expect. And so there aren’t sort of like hard rules per se about what you can do or what you can say or wear. There were some people who came into the restaurant and we were like, really?

You’re wearing a Tshirt here? But I think, you know, in this day and age, really, anyone can come in and people are dressed in different ways than you might expect them to be. But you come in, they lead you to your table, and you sit down. And the staff is just very attentive, so they’ll come over and they’ll explain how the meal is going to go. And sort of explain the different points at which you’re going to have choices. So, you know, it’s a pretty fixed menu. So most of the menu has already been laid out for you, and there might be only a couple of courses where you really get to make a choice between a couple of different options.

And then, of course, you have the option in terms of what you want to drink for the meal. And so one of the options is to do a beverage pairing. And in this case, it was, I would say, primarily a wine pairing, but included some non-wine beverages, as well. So one of the courses was actually paired with a ceremonial matcha tea from Japan, so green tea.

And that was very interesting and tied in very well with the dish itself. And then some of the wines that they served were sort of not the dry table wines that you would expect. You know, we had Madeira paired with one of our courses, which was a really sort of fun surprise, fun twist to have that with a, you know, a dinner course, not as a dessert wine, not as an aperitif or anything.

And so that was very cool. But of course, if you want to, you don’t have to do the beverage pairing. You can buy a bottle of wine, you, I don’t know how they would respond to if you brought a bottle of wine. I’m sure they would at the very least have a corkage fee, but we did not inquire.

So I’m not, I’m not sure. I’m sure that they have a full bar and you could order cocktails if you wanted to as well. And so they sort of present all of this to you, you know, all of your choices. In terms of what you want to do with the courses, what you want to do with your beverages.

And so you make all those choices up front, right at the beginning. And then everything sort of happens to you for the rest of the dinner. They bring everything out and it’s all, it’s meant to be very structured and very precise.

For example, my mom and I are both dining at the same table, of course, and so, you know, they bring out both of our dishes at the same time. They place them on the table in front of us at exactly the same time. They might unveil it if they have something over the plate. They’ll describe the whole gamut of everything that’s on your plate, which is the appropriate time for all your oohs and aahs about everything that’s included in the meal and in the dish.

And then you just get to sit back and enjoy it, which of course is, I think, both my mom’s and my favorite part. Yeah, you just get to enjoy it, and my mom and I, because we love, you know, fine dining and food and wine, you know, we’ll comment on, you know, what we like about the particular pairing or the dish itself.

And there are sort of more, sort of like, abstract things that you might find interesting about a dish. So, for example, at Maison Pic for dessert, there were of course, several desserts courses and options, but one of them was a truffle that was made to look like a peanut, a cacahuette in French. And you don’t really see a lot of peanuts in France in general, like, in general, peanuts are kind of an American thing. And so that was a really, it was sort of bucking all the stereotypes to bring us a dessert that’s like, not only includes peanuts in it, and includes peanut butter in it, but is actually in the shape of a peanut.

To us, that’s funny and interesting and, like, a play on what is considered fine dining and what is considered French. But again, that’s sort of more intellectual interest is there, if you want it to be, if you’re super into fine dining and all the stuff that goes with it, like my mom and I, but also the food is just downright delicious.

It just really was a delicious dinner. We came away, I think, very satisfied. And like I said, we just sort of waddled upstairs and fell into bed and, you know, woke up in this sort of, like, heavenly days in, in the morning, and had our coffee and relaxed before we took off for the day.

And actually, when we got in our car in the morning, we got in the car, which, you know, we had parked via valet, you know, they parked the car for you. They bring out the car, we get in, and we’re, you know, it’s been a couple of minutes, we’re in the car, we’re figuring out where we’re going, we’re pulling up Google Maps and all of a sudden I’m like… why are there these water bottles? And also there’s pâte de fruit, and they had left us little candies and like little water bottles in the car for us as a a little treat. And it’s just, it’s those little really thoughtful touches like that, that really elevate the place and make it really, really special, and a really memorable experience.

So, it was a fun, a fun stop.

[00:24:24] Annie Sargent: What did you think, Jennifer, were you also awed by this whole experience?

[00:24:28] Jennier Jerzyk: Yeah, you know, sometimes I’ve heard people say, well, you know, what’s the difference between a one Michelin, and a two Michelin and a three? Well, this is the first and only time I have ever eaten in a 3 Michelin starred restaurant.

[00:24:41] Emma Jerzyk: Mom, that is not true.

[00:24:42] Jennier Jerzyk: Okay, that’s true.

[00:24:44] Emma Jerzyk: The only time you’ve been to a three Michelin star restaurant in France.

[00:24:47] Jennier Jerzyk: In France, be qualified, in France, which I do think there’s a distinction of Michelin starred restaurants in France versus outside of France. Anyway, it is a very special experience. And you know, like Emma said, if you enjoy fine dining, I think it’s a special treat to, to try that.

[00:25:07] Annie Sargent: Yes, and the setting is always lovely. Nobody is rushing. You have plenty of staff. So, like you said, it’s choreographed, they’re going to bring you your two dishes exactly at the same time. So it’s not like you don’t have the waiter showing up with a massive tray full of food that might or might not fall on you.

This is like, one person is tasked with presenting you this beautifully made piece of food and it’s great. And usually it takes a good two hours to complete the meal, right?

[00:25:40] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, it’s definitely a whole evening activity. Do not make other plans.

[00:25:46] Jennier Jerzyk: We were actually there, I think, close to four hours.

It doesn’t feel like that long because there’s just always something happening.

[00:25:54] Annie Sargent: Yeah, and the setting is always important. I mean, like they have to have a beautiful room, very often it’s a beautiful garden as well, you know, it has to look fancy, and taste fancy and they will not serve anything that a very picky chef doesn’t consider to be, you know, it’s ready.

It’s good to go. Mm hmm.

[00:26:16] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah. And so there was a, there is like a beautiful garden right off of the restaurant. So the restaurant is connected to the hotel part of the building. And then there’s actually, so there’s, you know Maison Pic, which is the three Michelin star, sort of top restaurant you know, eponymous restaurant for Anne Sophie Pic.

And then there was also another restaurant that was a little bit more, you know, not quite, is not a three Michelin star restaurant. Still a very, very nice restaurant, we did not get a chance to try it. But if you were staying there for multiple nights, you could go there.

You don’t have to eat at the three Michelin star restaurant every night. And then there was that beautiful garden alongside the restaurant itself. And actually, they seated me and my mom at a table, it was like a little funny when we first sat down, they seated us at a table and we were both sitting on the same side of the table, which I always find like a bit awkward.

Because you’re sort of like turning to, you know, be able to talk to them, and you know, it’s obviously a little bit nicer to just be across the table from somebody when you’re talking to them, but it was so that they sat us that way so that we could have a view of the garden. So we were actually looking out the window into the garden.

And so we had that view over the course of the evening, and of course the sunset, and so it went from sort of late afternoon and evening into the night. And you could sort of walk out to the garden if you ever needed a breather, you know, it’s a lot of courses. So a couple people, you know, went out there, particularly, if you need a cigarette, you can go out to the garden.

And then, of course, you know, it was great to be seated that way for people watching. You could sort of see other tables, and see what they were doing, you know, if they ordered a bottle of wine or did the beverage pairing, which stage of the dinner were they at and, you know, all that people watching is always very fun in a restaurant.

[00:28:07] Annie Sargent: Absolutely, absolutely. All right, let’s move on to another experience of yours. Oh, there’s so many here. Go ahead, go ahead. You can think of a good one to talk about, Jennifer.

Chateauneuf du Pape

[00:28:20] Jennier Jerzyk: These trips, you know, where you sort of have an idea of what you want to do and you plan them yourself, you can make a lot of plans, but sometimes it’s the things that happen during the trip that you didn’t plan on at all, that wind up being extremely memorable. And I’ll just give one example here, we did a tasting, we stopped at the, in Chateauneuf du Pape, which is very well known obviously for its wines, and we stopped in the Perrin Family Cave tasting room.

I don’t think we would have need, I did call ahead, I don’t think we needed an appointment, but it turned out the young lady working in their tasting room was an American who’s married to a French fellow, and she had done a course in wine and so was, you know, well trained to do tastings. We got to taste some amazing Perrin Family wines.

They are also a huge producer in France and export a lot of their wines to the United States. So pretty easy to find. And then we said, Oh gosh, we don’t have any plans for lunch. She said, oh, just take a walk up the hill behind the church, and there’s a restaurant up there.

[00:29:29] Emma Jerzyk: It was a pretty steep, it was a pretty steep walk. Fair warning!

There were a lot of stairs involved.

[00:29:35] Jennier Jerzyk: About 10, maybe 15 minutes, and we weren’t even going very fast. Well, we got up to the top, and this was the restaurant Le Verger du Pape, which I think means The Fruiterie, The Fruit?

[00:29:48] Annie Sargent: Yeah, Verger is a place where you grow fruit.

[00:29:51] Jennier Jerzyk: It used to be the orchard for the popes, I guess. And so now converted into this lovely restaurant, they seated us immediately and we had a beautiful view out over the Rhône Valley. We could see the Rhône River. The food was absolutely wonderful. There was another group, were they Americans on them? Some of them were…

[00:30:10] Emma Jerzyk: Canadian.

[00:30:11] Jennier Jerzyk: Canadians. And they were debating over, should we get the cheese course or should we not? You’re in France, for heaven’s sakes! Yes, get the cheeseboard!

How many times do you do this in this absolutely beautiful location? So there are those just wonderful little surprises that happen when you’re traveling and, you know, they’re very memorable.

[00:30:34] Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. A local recommendation for someone who lives there is very important, always ask. At your hotel, whoever is you’re interacting with, if they have a recommendation because they probably know exactly where they would go.

(Mid-roll ad spot)

Valrhona Chocolate Museum

[00:30:52] Jennier Jerzyk: The other thing we kind of stumbled onto was that there is the Valrhona Chocolate Museum, and I think the factory might have been behind it, also alongside the Rhône River. Some people aren’t as familiar with Valrhona because they do a lot of commercial chocolate production. Emma, what are those little things called, that chocolate?

[00:31:16] Emma Jerzyk: They look like little beans, when they produce the chocolate and you usually, you buy them in these big, like, 5, 10 pound bags. And they, you know, come in these little Fevs. And so I think a lot of pastry and chocolate producers use Valrhona chocolate, but maybe not as many sort of home chefs are familiar, but it’s a very, very high quality chocolate producer.

And I actually, I had used their chocolate before for cooking and or baking, and I had not realized that the reason it is called Valrhona is because it is in the valley, the Val of the Rhône River. And so I was like, all of a sudden, it was a real, it was a moment where it all sort of came together for me that we were there, we were in, it’s called Tain, Tain l’Hermitage is the town where the Cité du Chocolat is. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, that’s why it’s called Valrhona.

But it was a really fun part of the trip, I think especially if you have kids, it would definitely, it’s a really fun sort of sensory museum. You buy a ticket, and as you’re going through all of the exhibits, you know, all the exhibits sort of talk about different parts of the chocolate making process, different types of inputs, different variables that influence the taste of the chocolate in the end, and there are all these little dispensers around all of the exhibits.

And so you scan your ticket, and it dispenses a little square of chocolate for you that is sort of, and it’s usually a chocolate that’s sort of relevant to the topic that they’re talking about. And so, you know, the tickets were, I want to say they were, you know, around 20 to 25 Euros a piece for the tickets, or maybe it was 11.

I can’t remember how much.

[00:33:07] Jennier Jerzyk: I think, it was more like 10-11 Euros.

[00:33:08] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, I think it was 23 euros for both of us. So I think it was around 11 Euros a piece. But as part of that, you get like 15 pieces of chocolate. You’re kind of like, even if I were just buying this chocolate, it would probably cost only a couple Euros less than the price of the ticket.

And then when you buy the ticket, also, you can go over to the Valrhona Chocolate Store and I think you get 10 or 20 percent off as a discount, having bought the ticket. And so I bought lots of little chocolates. They had the, I think they’re called for Easter, the fishes. And so I had bought a bunch of those because they were on sale because it was just past Easter.

I think when we were there. And so I bought a bunch of those and brought them home for my work colleagues, which they really, really enjoyed.

[00:33:56] Annie Sargent: Yeah, they’re good. Yeah. Not every day that you get to eat a piece of chocolate that’s in the shape fish. That’s great. That’s great.

Les Épicurieux

[00:34:03] Annie Sargent: So it looks like you had lunch at a place called Les Épicurieux. So tell me about this.

[00:34:08] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, that was also a local recommendation. So just going back to the theme of always ask people you know, what their recommendation is. And so that, you know, we had gone and done the tasting at Guigal which is, you know, up in Côte Rôtie, and we had done the tasting, and I bought a bottle of wine, and we said, we’re looking to get some lunch, is there anything you guys would recommend? And they were like, oh, yeah, they were like, it’s the restaurant in town. And they were like, here, they were like, don’t even drive there. It’s 2 blocks away. They were like, just turn right out here, walk until you get to a restaurant.

That’s the restaurant.

[00:34:47] Annie Sargent: That’s the one. Yeah.

[00:34:49] Emma Jerzyk: That’s the one. But of course, being in Côte Rotie, of course, it’s a restaurant / wine shop. And so we ended up buying a bottle of wine while we were there, to have with our lunch, because it’s a French lunch, so we must have wine. And we’re on vacation, why not? And so we had a bottle of wine, and just a lovely afternoon having lunch there.

And we actually had this really fabulous dessert that I had never had before that was mint ice cream with chartreuse poured over it. And I was like, this is not a combination that I would have come up with….

[00:35:28] Annie Sargent: Yeah.

[00:35:29] Emma Jerzyk: But it tastes really good.

[00:35:31] Annie Sargent: That’s good. That’s good. All right.

So time is moving on fast, are there more of these wine and dining things that you want to mention?

Hermitage Hill

[00:35:40] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, the only other thing that I would love to say about the wine experience was my favorite, like I said, my favorite producer is JL Chave, who does not take visitors although when we were at Guigal, we were speaking with some people who said, oh, if you find the right tour guide, they can get you in and, you know, whatever.

We might be doing that next year. But it was a really special experience, we went to visit in Tain l’Hermitage the producer Paul Jaboulay Annet, who that’s also sort of a big chateau, tasted a bunch of wines.

[00:36:15] Annie Sargent: Yeah. I remember seeing those in the US.

[00:36:17] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, yes, readily available in the United States. And one of the wines that they produce, or I think they have a couple different Hermitage Shiraz.

But they’re really, you know, well known and most expensive wine is called La Chapelle. It’s from the hill of Hermitage and there is a chapel up towards the top of the hill, and the vineyards around it are referred to as La Chapelle. We went and did that tasting and we were speaking with the host and we said, well, you know, can we visit the chapel?

Like, there were pictures of the chapel, sort of around the tasting room, and we said, so can you get up there? Like, can we get up there? Is that okay? And he was like, oh, yeah, we’ll just drive up there, and he sort of showed us the way. And so we drove up. There were a number of people we saw along the way who were walking up.

So if you’re into hiking, you can totally, you know, walk it if you wanted to. I would not want to, but if you’re somebody who likes hiking, you might, you might enjoy it.

But, I mean, it’s just beautiful when you get up there,it is an unbelievable view of the Rhône River, and the valley, and the town of Tain L’Hermitage.

And I mean, like I said, I just, that feels really special to me. The Hill of Hermitage has been there for so long, it’s been used as a wine producing area. They’ve produced Shiraz specifically on that hill for centuries. And I just think that’s, I mean, it’s living history.

It’s so exciting to get to be there, and feel like you’re a part of it. I sort of liken it to a, for me, it was like a religious experience to get to go there and be there in person. And so that was, that was a really, really special moment for me, even though it was kind of like, you drive up there and you sort of walk around, you get to see the chapel, and see the vineyards and there’s a bench. It’s sort of, you kind of just stand there, there’s not anything to do. But I found it really, really special. And it was a really, really great moment in the trip.

[00:38:21] Annie Sargent: So Jennifer, since you live in France, do you eat like that every day?

[00:38:25] Jennier Jerzyk: No, I do not. It was very much a special trip. We were kind of informally celebrating both of our birthdays, I guess, this year. We’ll use that excuse anyway.

[00:38:36] Annie Sargent: Yes.

[00:38:37] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah, it was really, you know, this is, like I said, the first time I went to go visit my mom since she’s moved there. And so I think for that occasion, we were, you know, ready to make it a special trip.

Driving in France

[00:38:49] Annie Sargent: Mm hmm. So since you drove, did you run into any problems with the drive, or the rental, or anything like that?

[00:38:57] Jennier Jerzyk: No, I rented the car through EuropaCar. We wound up getting an automatic, which I mean, I know how to drive a stick shift, but so that was kind of just made it that much easier. We were on some toll roads part of the time and that was pretty easy to, you know, you go through the toll booth and you pay with your credit card.

We gassed it up before we returned it. You know, to me GPS just makes all the difference because you know exactly where to go. And it works. For me, it works really well.

[00:39:28] Emma Jerzyk: It worked really well, except for one winery, or a tasting room, was one tasting room that was like marked incorrectly on Google Maps. Like, it said it was in one place, and it was actually like two miles down the road and in the other direction. And so that was a bit confusing at one point, but we just called the winery and they were like, yep, we know where you are.

They were like, this keeps happening.

[00:39:53] Annie Sargent: Well, they could just fix their location in Google Maps.

[00:39:57] Emma Jerzyk: You would think.

[00:39:59] Annie Sargent: Yeah, they’re clearly better at making wine than doing a website.

[00:40:02] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah.

[00:40:03] Annie Sargent: Which figures, you know. All right. Did you learn anything about France on this trip?

[00:40:09] Emma Jerzyk: Uuu, good question. I would say I learned more details about sort of the Rhône River Valley and what is involved in the winemaking, and what is allowed.

You know, there’s a lot of rules in France around what grape varietals are allowed to be grown and blended into wines from different areas. And so one of the things that I had sort of heard about prior to the trip, but got to sort of experience and hear about more up close, is that in some of the Northern Rhône you know, they produce Shiraz as their red wine, but they will also blend in some Viognier, which is a grape varietal that is typically used for white wine production, particularly in the Appellation of Côte Réu.

And so it’s usually you’ll have a Vionier, it’s a single varietal white wine, that’s sort of very aromatic and bold. But they will actually blend that into the red Shiraz wine up to, I believe, 20% in some areas of Côte Rotie. And it just helps sort of, like, lift the Shiraz.

If you’re a big Shiraz drinker, you might know, you know, some Shiraz are on the lighter side, but a lot of them can tend to be, you know, a bit bolder, more tannic, and sometimes it gets a little sort of stodgy almost. And so they’ll blend in Vionnier as a way to sort of lift it. And hearing about that was really interesting to me.

Also, there’s an appellation up in the Northern Rhône, that I’d actually never heard of, because it’s an appellation where there is only one domain. And they produce all of the wine from that appellation. And I think it’s very difficult to find in the United States, very difficult to find in general and particularly difficult to find in the United States.

And so this was an appellation that I had just straight up never heard of before actually getting to France.

[00:42:07] Annie Sargent: That’s interesting. Yeah. And of course the price of wine in France in general is a lot less expensive than in the US.

[00:42:15] Emma Jerzyk: Especially compared to the quality. You can technically get less expensive wines, or, you know, you can get wines that are similarly inexpensive to the wines in France, in the United States, but they’re going to be a lot worse than the wines that you’re buying in France.

For, you know, five euros. You can spend five dollars on a bottle of wine in the United States, but it’s going to not be very good, but you can spend five euros on a bottle of wine in France and it can be an actually really, really good bottle of wine.

[00:42:46] Annie Sargent: Is there something that you did, that you didn’t really enjoy that you would not recommend?

[00:42:51] Emma Jerzyk: Good question.

Dinner at Cafe des Fédérations-a bouchon in Lyon

[00:42:53] Annie Sargent: In the document you talk about a bouchon restaurant.

[00:42:57] Emma Jerzyk: Oh yeah, the bouchon restaurant in Lyon is a very like classic bouchon you know, Lyon is sort of known for particular dishes and it’s a lot of often very sort of like heavy sort of countryside food. Cream and pork. The two pillars of Lyonnaise cuisine, and maybe like potatoes or something.

[00:43:18] Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:19] Emma Jerzyk: But yeah, it’s it’s a lot of that sort of heavy food, but eaten in a very uplifting environment. So we, you know, went to this, it’s a very classic bouchon in Lyon Café de Fédération. It’s definitely like a very touristy experience, it’s not I think something that people in Lyon are probably doing every day.

But for me, you know, I had told my mom before we went there, you know, I wanted to go someplace and get sort of like the classic Lyon experience.

And so we went to this bouchon and it ended up being kind of a blast. And there was an accordion player who played for a lot of our dinner and people were singing and it ended up being a very fun night.

[00:44:01] Annie Sargent: Yeah, I can’t talk smack of accordion, I put it at the beginning of every show. But if there is an accordion, it’s probably touristy.

[00:44:09] Emma Jerzyk: It’s true. I also, I did a tour in Lyon previously, or, you know, prior to that dinner, that I personally was not a huge fan of. I’ve done a lot of food tours in a lot of different cities, and this one, it was a bit odd. We sort of went to each location and the tour guide was like, here’s the food.

We didn’t really, like, get a description of, like, who made this, and why, and what’s their story, and like, why is this important to Lyon, and sort of all the stuff like that, not a lot of description. And then also we ended up eating a lot of very, I would say not traditional Lyonnais food. We did have, we had the Brioche Pralinée, which is a traditional, yeah, a traditional Lyon pastry, it’s brioche, yeah, like this like pink praline.

[00:45:01] Annie Sargent: Is there a Pralus in Lyon as well?

P-R-A-L-U-S. He has a couple of stores in Paris. One is included in my self-guided food in Paris. But I don’t know if he has any in Lyon.

[00:45:17] Emma Jerzyk: Yeah. That might’ve been where we went, but yeah, we went to a bakery and got the brioche praline, but then we went to a place and got pizza. That’s definitely not French, definitely very much Italian. And it was, you know, the tour guide, she didn’t tell us, like, okay, this is, you know, has special Italian ingredients, special olive oil, all of that stuff. Then we went to a place that had empanadas. Which again, they were delicious, like, you know, no, no qualms with the deliciousness of the food, but it was not, it was just not really, you know, actually about Lyon, it felt like, and there wasn’t a lot of sort of description as to, you know, what’s the connection here? What’s the historical context of this food? Why is this important?

Who’s making this? Why do they care about it? You know, all the stuff you want to know on a tour.

And so, yeah, we made a couple of stops, but it was, yeah, I would say that was not, not my favorite.

[00:46:11] Annie Sargent: Okay.

Well, Jennifer and Emma, you have been wonderful, very animated, very excited about that trip. I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening who love wines, and gourmet dining, who will be salivating the whole time they listen, that’s about what I was doing. So I’m like, Oh, now I got to go have some dinner, but I’m not going to fix anything that fancy because every day, you know, in France, we don’t eat that fancy, honestly, you know.

[00:46:39] Emma Jerzyk: I think my, I think my mom’s favorite thing is the flan from Carrefour, right?

[00:46:45] Annie Sargent: The one from Carrefour is particularly good.

[00:46:47] Jennier Jerzyk: Well, it’s good. And it’s very accessible.

[00:46:51] Annie Sargent: Definitely, yes. I have to go to Carrefour to get a few things for our trip tomorrow, so perhaps I’ll check out the flan, we’ll see.

Thank you very much, ladies, you have been wonderful to talk to. And hopefully you’ll come back to France and try more wonderful wines. You know, there’s some very good wines in the Southwest as well.

So come West. We have all the good, yet cheap wine here.

[00:47:14] Jennier Jerzyk: That is very true. You have wonderful wines in the Southwest.

[00:47:18] Annie Sargent: Merci beaucoup.

[00:47:20] Emma Jerzyk: Merci.

[00:47:21] Annie Sargent: Au revoir.

Thank you, patrons

[00:47:22] Annie Sargent: Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving back and supporting the show. Patrons get several exclusive rewards for doing that. You can see them at patreon.com/joinus. P A T R E O N, Join Us, no spaces or dashes. A special shout out this week to my new Join Us in France champions, Tamara Clahen and Chuck Watson.

Would you join them too? You can do that for as little as $2 a month, although the rewards you get for a little more than that are totally worth it as well. Go to patreon.com/joinus and to support Elyse go to patreon.com/elysart, E L Y S A R T.

My thanks also to Margaret Sapp for her one time donation made using any green button on joinusinfrance.com that says, Tip Your Guide. I think listeners get great tips from this podcast and I appreciate it when you reciprocate, so thank you.

VoiceMap tours

[00:48:31] Annie Sargent: You can discover Paris at your own pace with my VoiceMap self-guided GPS tours. Whether you’re strolling through historic neighborhoods, admiring iconic landmarks, or uncovering hidden gems, these tours are designed to be your perfect companion.

Just download the VoiceMap app, which is free, pick a tour and let my narration guide you through the City of Light. You’ll get local insights, fascinating stories, and practical tips, all the while walking in the footsteps of history. Perfect for both first time visitors and seasoned travellers. And if you buy those tours directly from me, you’ll get the listener discount. You can check them out and buy tour codes at a discount at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.

Tour reviews

[00:49:18] Annie Sargent: I’m going to read some reviews of these tours, because I’ve written several of them. The first one is for my Ile de la Cité tour. This person wrote, Fantastic tour, well worth it and gained knowledge about the Ile de la Cité.

Another one on my Montmartre tour. I love that Annie starts in the uncrowded parts of Montmartre before she takes us into the thick of things of the tourist section. It turns out that our Airbnb was just a few steps away from four different landmarks, so it was cool. Also, that Annie strategic and planned the route so that they were never more than 12 stair steps involved in any of the flight of stairs. That’s an accomplishment for Montmartre. Well done. Yes, thank you very much.

Yes, I don’t have very good knees. And so I don’t really like to take 50 steps at a time. And so I’ve planned the tour out so that, I mean, it’s Montmartre, you have to take steps. But you can do it a little bit at a time and end at the top without having to, you know, go through that frightening long set of, you know, stairs.

About my Latin Quarter tour, This was a great tour like the Montmartre or the Marais tour. However, not like Ile de la Cité tour that I have also purchased and that was crashing all the time and I was not able to do yet. I will repeat it tonight with a hope that it will work better.

Yeah, sometimes, you know, phones are a bit funny. These apps are pretty easy to use, but if it keeps crashing, I think, you know, turn it off and on, it will probably work better. And with these tours, any of these tours that you’ve bought, you can delete the tour and download it again. And once you’ve bought it, you can delete it and get it back at any time.

So do that, try that.

Thank you Carolyn and Ernest Fuller for your one time donation. Caroline wrote, Annie, we enjoyed your podcast so much because of your podcast about the Mayenne. We met Sarah Smith, who was my guest, talking about the Mayenne, and now we see them whenever we stay near Laval.

I’m delighted that the podcast brought you together, that’s wonderful. Thank you for letting me know and thank you for your tip.

Planning a trip to France?

If you’re planning a trip to France and have questions that did not get answered in an episode of the podcast, you can hire me to be your itinerary consultant. I offer two levels of itinerary consultations, the Bonjour service and the VIP service.

[00:51:48] Annie Sargent: It’s all explained at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.

Should I bring my designer bag to Paris?

[00:51:54] Annie Sargent: Someone asked on the Facebook group if she should bring her designer bag to Paris. She got many answers, and the answers were all over the place, as is always the case on Facebook. If you are confused about something, just ask on Facebook and you’ll get so many different answers, you’re not going to know what to do with any of them.

But I don’t answer every question on the group. There’s too many. But this is one where I said, my recommendation is to leave it at home and use it when you go to the country club at home. That’s where you might want to show off your beautiful jewels, your watches, your purses. Paris is a big city with big city thugs, sometimes in organized bands that roam the city, looking for tourists and easy marks.

Go to Paris with the mindset that someone will try to rob you, and have nothing that’s difficult to replace on your person. The most expensive thing you should have on your person is your cell phone. Cell phones make life easier, they make travel easier, you’ll need it, but you don’t want to mind your Rolex, your Kelly purse, and all of the other nice things that you own as well as your phone. Just in Paris or in any big city in France, use a cheap cross body bag with zippers and only take one credit card and something like a little bit of cash, 40 euros or something. Keep your phone either in your hand or zipped up in your purse. Have ID other than your passport. Perhaps bring your driver’s license, which, I mean, if somebody takes it, okay, you can replace it, it’s not the end of the world.

Perhaps have a passport card, which you can order when you get your new passport. Travel light, my friends, that’s the name of the game.

Alain Delon

[00:53:49] Annie Sargent: This week, we learned that Alain Delon passed away at age 88. I’m sure you know who he was, most of you, but for the young listeners. Alain Delon was a very handsome actor who played some iconic roles in French movies.

His later years were difficult because his kids are fighting over the money and I’m sure the fights will just get worse. He had some really backward ideas that were prevalent in the 60s and 70s in France. For example, he had put in his will that his beloved Malinois dog, he always had a Malinois, he loved the breed, should be euthanized because he would never have a good life without him.

Obviously, no sane veterinarian will euthanize a healthy dog, and you can’t do that in France, so it’s not going to happen. And dogs can have a good life, even after their owner passes, so long as they are with competent, loving people. But he was kind of obsessed with this idea. He had mentioned it in several interviews and usually, the interviewers would say, really, isn’t that a bit extreme?

And he would just repeat that. No, the dog would never be the same without me. Oh boy, dude, get over yourself. Anyway. So yes, the passing of a legend, I guess.

Emmanuel Macron will be looking to announce the new cabinet that will rule France in early September. The Olympics gave us a nice breather, but the political bickering will resume any time now.

I may just have to go back to ignoring most of that. Besides voting, of course, I never skip a vote. Polish writer Katarzyna, oh, I can’t say this word, uh, Niva Dzioma, I’m not sure. Wonderful person that she is, she won the Women’s Tour de France, 2024. And she didn’t get a lot of headlines because of the Olympics, but it was a really tight race.

She was four seconds ahead of Demi Vollering, who won last year. Congratulations to both of them and to all the riders. The Women’s Tour de France deserves more attention. It’s, it’s a fantastic event.

My husband, daughter and her fiancé are getting ready to set off to Paris in the mighty MG electric car.

And I was a little worried about the luggage, because it doesn’t have the biggest trunk in the world, but it all fit. Our four carry on pieces and a couple of backpacks fit. We tried, and now I have to find a dog sitter, because somehow I had failed to ask my usual dog sitter, and she’s not sure she can do it.

So yeah, it’s so stressful when you travel, you know, usually I’m really well organized. I plan these things weeks in advance. I know exactly what’s going to happen. Yeah. This time, oof, but I’m sure it’ll work out. I have several plan B. My thanks to podcast editors Anne and Cristian Cotovan who produced the transcripts.

Next week on the podcast

[00:56:54] Annie Sargent: Next week on the podcast, an episode with Elyse about spending two days in Marseille and having a fabulous time. She’s been visiting Marseille once a year, more or less, staying with a friend and she explains all the things that she enjoyed on her latest trip. She went out of her way to try some of the things she had never seen before.

And there’s some very cool things in Marseille as you will see. Thank you for listening, and I hope you join me next time so we can look around France together! Au revoir!

Copyright

[00:57:23] Annie Sargent: The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted, and produced by Annie Sargent and Copyright 2024 by AddictedToFrance. It is released under a Creative Commons, attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives license.

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Transcript for Episode 508: Gourmet Escapades in the Rhône Valley