Transcript for Episode 236: Normandy Cider Route

Categories: Normandy & Brittany, Off the Beaten Track in France

Discussed in this Episode

  • Lisieux
  • Honfleur
  • Pays d'Auge
  • Cambremer
  • Hard Cider
  • Cidre Doux
  • Cidre Brut
  • Cidre Bouché
  • Pommeau
  • Poiré
  • Calvados
  • Cider in the Basque Country
  • Cidery
  • Cider Mill
  • Domaine Dupont
  • Père Jules
  • Manoir d'Appreval


This is join us in France Episode 236. Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent. And this is a podcast about all things French. You see, I was born and raised in France, but moved away at age 21. And lived in the US until I was 40. When I moved home to France, I realized I didn’t know my own country very well. And I went on a bit of a journey of rediscovering. And then I thought, why not do a podcast about that. And here I am talking into a microphone and giving you also the microphone because it turns out my listeners know a lot about friends as well. On today’s episode, The interview is about the cider route in Normandy, I didn’t know much about this, besides, you know, the normal background information I have just from growing up in France. But then Ria when color who knows all about cider all over the world, reached out to me and suggested we might do an episode together. And I thought this was a brilliant idea. So there it is. Rhea is a also a podcast producer. She has a podcast about cider. When I tell you that there’s a podcast about everything. This is an example a podcast about cider, called cider chat, and I recommend you check it out. Ria also offers cider themed tours, including one coming up in the fall in Normandy. Check that out on her website, cider It looks like a lot of fun. This week was the 75th anniversary of D day. And if you were in France for the D Day celebrations, going on a visit to the side or route would have been a great addition to to your trip besides seeing the most and Michelle and of course, all the DJ places that are wonderful to visit. But we’ll get to that in a second. After my chat with Rhea, I’ll tell you about a new scam I didn’t know about from a listener in Portland who alerted me to it. And I will also tell you about big changes coming the electric scooters in Paris. If you’re interested in this episode, I recommend you go check out all the other episodes about Normandy there are 10 more at this point. I will list them on the show notes for this episode, which you will find at join us in France. com. forward slash to 36 the number 236.

And welcome to join us in France.

On Joe Annie. Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure.

So this episode is a little bit is very different from anything I’ve done before. Because we are both going to release the same episode where we talk about cider in Normandy. Well, that’s fine by me because I can’t get enough

cider and normally so having two more.

This perfect, how come Why? Why the cider. Why? cider I’ve been involved in cider in the US for 25 years, primarily because of the region that I’m in in Massachusetts is where the cider focus in the US and really its impact worldwide was felt part of Franklin County Saturdays and I began teaching started making 25 years ago. And that passion has continued forward. And so many years later, I realized you know, I have a bit of info people are kind of hot on the side of the trail once I start sharing my knowledge, my connections and now, like you as a podcaster of welcoming people to France, I went to cider.

Excellent. And how old is your podcast? I think you’ve been doing it for a long time, right?

Yes, I’m in my fourth season. I just released Episode 182. So yeah, it’s a weekly podcast. Wow.

Yeah, my I’m a little further ahead than you am. I am on 234. So this episode will probably, you know, to 35 to 36, something like that. So yeah, we’ve been we’ve been at this a long time, but it’s just that I talk about friends destinations, and you talk about cider. So but you know cider is interesting to me because I know a lot of people want to do wine touring in France. But of course in Normandy, there is no wine.

That region is just renowned just like Bordeaux’s really renowned for grapes. Norma, DN Brittany, are renowned for their apples specific for cider and their pears specific for cider make making to so not too much. Yeah. And now on your podcast. I know you I really refer to your podcast quite a bit for the folks who are going to France. I mean, France is such a wonderful country, because each region has so much diversity, so much specific products for that region and sites to see, it’s almost like the podcast just could go on forever. Because there’s so much that you share. And you do share it.

Yes, yes. And what I like to do is to have conversations with people. It’s not a produced show at all. I don’t you know, I, I just talked with people. And I asked them how their visit went and what they liked and what they didn’t like and what they were recommend and that sort of thing. And it’s very fun. Because some of the time I have been to these places, and sometimes I haven’t, but I’m just like that my listeners, I want to find out. I’m curious, you know, that’s, that’s how it works for me anyway.

Well, shall we talk a little bit about side of it. And I could share with you a little part of France that I’ve been able to discover and it sounds like you haven’t really been in Normandy? Some at least in the search?

Yeah, yeah. Some but I mean, I’ve been to the bit you know, I’ve been to by you. I’ve been to come. I’ve been to most Me shall obviously, few times, but leaves you for instance, I’ve never been it’s I was just reading up about it. And the overflow. I’ve never been I know it’s gorgeous, and that everybody raves about it. But I and I can see the photos. It does look gorgeous. Actually, one of the photos I use as the as the header for join us in is the his own flair. So, you know, it’s gorgeous, I need to go. But yeah, one of these days, it’s kind of far away, because I live in to lose, you know. So for me to drive all the way to Normandy, like to those areas, it would probably take me a good 10 hour drive.

Right. And I think a lot of regions will go out to on flew. At least it’s known that way. Because it’s about two, two and a half hour drive maybe a little bit more probably, depending upon traffic, right. And for the zoo. People could take a train to the zoo. Although, if you’re going to be doing any kind of traveling about Normandy, you really need to have your own car. You don’t you know, it’s Yeah, you can’t do it any other way.

Yeah, this is something I’ve pointed out in all the episodes about Normandy is, this is not a place where you can use public transportation, I did an episode about how people can go to the mall, semi shell in on a day trip from Paris, but it’s really not has a day trip. It’s a bad idea. But you can go to the mall, semi shell by train, I suggest you stay overnight. But that’s a different take

that that would be really taxing I think and I think when I’m traveling, and I’m sure you probably agree, I tried to minimize the amount of travel time and to take a pace. So you can really take in the exquisite countryside of Normandy and all the friends. That’s right.

That’s right. That’s the way to do and

driving in France is really not that difficult. Once you understand a few basics. And I’ve done several episodes about driving in France, there’s a whole category on my website, where I’ve discussed driving in France with different people and I used to teach driving in France two years ago, this is before I left for the US. So I have a good idea of you know what Americans find a little startling about driving in France. But driving in Normandy, honestly, it’s pretty easy. It is easy. The only kind of catches if you are tasting cider

that brings in a different factor to

draw. Yeah, you need to drive.

Yeah, that’s why I lead to Normandy, so that people could just be well, totally into cider and not even have to think about that driving part. That’s right. Yeah, that’s the way to just dive right into it. And because there is just so much richness, in terms of cider and pour a and Calvin dose.

So tell us a little bit about So you mentioned that this area is famous for growing the pears and the apples for the cider, right?

Correct. And, and what that is about any is just a I’m going to keep on referring to Bordeaux because that’s, that’s kind of a good example, with wine. Well, cider is made much like wine, but essentially it is fermented apple juice. So in the US, so you might remember when people were getting fresh apple juice, at least in my region of New England, because of prohibition and all that that kind of ended cider for, for quite a while until more recently. And so people would call that cider and now in the US, we we also kind of call it hard cider. It’s a little confusing that way, right. But in essence, as in Bordeaux, there are specific regions in the that lend itself for making cider and that so true for for grapes. So there’s Pacific Apple varieties, just like you have grapes that you eat and grapes, were making wine. The same is true with cider, right apples that you wouldn’t necessarily want to be munching down on the because they have bitter, sweet and bitter, sharp profiles to it that are excellent for bringing out tannins into the cider. And the same is true for the Paris there’s eating pears and fermenting pears. Right. And that’s the same with wine. With great, right, and it has to do with correct Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that’s why everybody there is making cider and they’re distilling it into Calvin dose and Calvin doses. It’s at that same level as cognac. But cognac has really, you know, taken the swing, you see a lot of cognac in the US but you don’t see too much Cavazos. You really want to go to Normandy to hunt down the Kavakos. And that’s part of the fun to explore. Discover,

yeah. So you actually, where do you take your your tour? You mean your your visitors when you drive them around Normandy on your side or route? Where do you take them?

Well, we typically meet in Paris first, again, because I was trying to like, slow down that time, and then we leave from Paris and returned to Paris. And that seems to make quite a bit of sense. So when we we arrive in Normandy, we’re like ready to go and start sipping and walking about the origins. So our first destination that we did last year, we went out to the route, deuce. Sita, you know, a cider in France is spelled differently. It’s CIDRE. Right. CDNNC de Yeah. And in its CIDER. And so we we head out to Deuce, cedar, and that is about 40 kilometers. So it’s not a huge area. But the truth is, cider is all around North. That’s just one one particular area.

Right? So the designated that area as well. Do you see the home but you find cider everywhere? Normandy?

That’s right, right. It’s made by farmers. And then there’s different levels of producers making that

right. I remember, okay, this is a funny story. And I think I might have shared it before on the podcast. But years and years and years ago, I was on a summer camp. And they sent my parents chose a summer camp in Normandy. And this camp. Well, actually, I think, technically we’re in Brittany, because we were much further west than the year and all of that, but I don’t even remember because I was only like 10 or


And this side of this camp was a cycling camp. And I had this the little friends and I we weren’t very sporty and we weren’t very fast. And so we were always we would always drag behind the rest of the group. And we ran out of water. So we walked into one of these little farm houses and asked for water. And the lady was so nice to us. She actually sat us down at her in her kitchen. And she gave us a glass of cider and some cookies. And then she filled up our water. And I thought, Oh, these people are wonderful. I want some more of that. So the next the next farm, what do we do? I throw out my water. Go, oh, we ran out of water. Same thing. It was a glass of cider and a cookie. And yeah, by the end of the afternoon we were somewhat you know buzz. So that’s about that. That’s my memory of cider, but they weren’t giving us the hard cider because in in Normandy they do cider for kids and cider for grownups. Right?

Yes. And the cider for kids would not be fermented so would have no alcohol in it. Oh, it

sounds like you were Oh, it has so

yeah, yeah, Lucy good. Well, in France has like 2% alcohol. And this good has like five or 6% alcohol. I’d like

that’s what I’m used to. Yes, you’re correct. And I’m kind of taking like the more American approach that the children would would just be given the the fresh pressed apple juice, which is Yeah, all the face.

Yeah, that’s not what they were giving us. They were giving us those who do which tastes sweet and has a little bit of alcohol. So if you drink enough of it, like we were just you definitely get a buzz especially if you’re 10. And that’s what’s lovely about that is

typically the the French are drinking cedar

as kind of a company meant to create not like in the rest of the world or in the US specifically, we have it for dinner. We have it for lunch. Yeah.

You know, it’s kind of interesting that way.

Yeah, you do you order a Be sure to sit home with your with your cup. Yeah, that’s totally what we do. I don’t I don’t do Insider, very frequently. But if I go to a cup of tea, that’s what I order.

Yes. And it’s changing. Even in France, which has such a deep tradition into cider and the way it’s made. And there’s the Appalachian control for that region. It is starting to change and there’s your you’re seeing the classic French Normandy farmhouse style cider that the ones that you mentioned. But also now it’s going more towards at some of the producers at least are making it more as a wine style of cider that’s a bit more drier, and doesn’t have that kind of farm farming funk. To which I love I the first thing I land in France and I have to have a classic 750 mil bottle of that Normandy, cedar do see the boost, you know just Yeah. Oh, it’s so. so unique. Yeah.

Yeah, it’s it’s very, it’s changed. There. I even saw place in her. There’s a play, I think, in the Basque Country, I can’t remember for sure. But we were in this restaurant with a big quiet group. So it was we had booked the entire restaurant. And what they had a big old barrel, and they had a waiter who would cork the barrel. But then if you approached with your glass, you would uncork it. And you had to you had to aim your glass cup. After, by the end of dinner, nobody could aim right to take care of us, you know, because we kept drinking that stuff. Like it was water, it was terrible.

Yeah, and sometimes you’re all sharing the same glass to which is the classic way that they in the Basque region, and also a little to the south is a serious, and they are, they have a cider festival every single night in that regional world. They make cider differently there. They really inform really the rest of the world. For Normandy, most of the makers that I know there, they credit, a serious and the best region for cider. And then it came up the coast, went over to England, and you know, kind of the apples just start rolling out of Kazakhstan, and went around the world.

I didn’t know that she, I mean, I experienced this, but I didn’t know the reason behind it. You know, I just like you’re in a group, everybody’s having cider. Okay, give me some, you know?

Well, I think you hit upon the, the, the one thing that I love about cider, and that it is fun.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It’s fun, because it’s not so strong that you’re going to be, you know, drunk quickly. Like, I mean, most of us can have a fairly big portion of cider without being tipsy. with wine. And definitely, with Gavin or CO, I would be under the table in five seconds.

Well, that’s a good point. Because it’s cider, it’s typically in France, it’s half. If you have a full glass of cider, it’s half the amount of alcohol percentage as a glass of wine. So a glass of wine anywhere in the world is around 11 to 13%. Yeah, and foresight, Americans are making a 8.5%. But in France, you’re classically seeing around 6%

as being the highest that you would see,

right. And when it has that level of alcohol in France, usually it’s not very sweet. I mean, it’s not super dry, either, like, but you mentioned that maybe they’re starting to make it more dry. But

the ones that had,

you’ll find you find different things going on there. And we’re even seeing some makers in France, taking a little bit of lead from the Americans and adding what you might call an adjunct to the cider. One is hops, believe it or not, because the Apple is so inviting to so many different profiles and spices. I mean, Americans put coffee into cider and ferment that love with the cider. Oh, wow. They put it a biscuits, flowers, you know, peppercorns. I mean, the sky is the limit with cider. Whereas with wine or even beer, there’s kind of a, it’s been going fast in the world. But cider has just exploded in the best way possible on two peoples and consumers line of sight because it’s so inviting for so many profiles. You’re not seeing that too much in France. It’s such a traditional country in that way. And that’s the beauty of it. But at the same time, they’re opening the door and saying, oh, what’s the rest of the world doing? And that’s just the way of the world isn’t it?

That’s good. That’s good. shows that they want to keep up. I mean, if people are starting to flavor their cider with he viscous flowers, why not try it?

Yeah. Why not? Exactly. Yeah, I would agree. But you know, I’m of that same mind, why not go for it, explore it, but but my main goal is to really go ahead to taste specific cider varieties, like one type of stuff. It might be made with just one or two apples varieties. And that’s the beauty of and a dose has there. They even they have an apple called Calvin dos. Oh, yes, yes,

yeah, was

brought up, you know, I guess it was on a ship coming up from Spain. And that went off the coast and they, you know, salvaged it and got the apple off of that, that ship if I’m remembering that story correctly. And now that’s used specifically for making Kava dos. So not all apples are even used to make side or they’ll make cider first. And then they’ll distill it to make Calvados. Fascinating.

I see. So it’s the same, so they crush it some more for the kind of adults or something.

Well, the way they make overdose is they begin with the, the cider. And again, they’re going to just use specific Apple varieties. If they then they’ll just allow it to ferment and then they’ll distill it but they’re just looking for a very specific apples for that Calvin go Caitlin.

So so when they make side okay, this is this is me being an ignoramus. But when I have made apple juice didn’t in the past, and the way you are made, it was it was like a funky contraption that would have water on the bottom that heated up the apples, but didn’t penetrate anywhere near the apples. And then the apples would start boiling. And there was a spigot where the apple juice would come out of is that pretty much how they make apple juice to make cider later.

No, okay. It’s not okay. I do know, that contraption that you’re talking about. For cider. Across the board. There is no heat. Okay, so it’s a crushing.


Yeah. Have you ever been and when you were in Normandy these big round?

It was called the Gosh, I believe. And it’s a spell that sir, I think it’s a de apostrophe GUAG.


The Gosh, that’s, that’s how they told me, they would say, and this is what was before modern technology came and they throw the apples in this circle, and a big wheel would go around, round up and pulled by a horse or a donkey from you like this, and crush the apples and then they take those apples and put it into a press a lot of time the press back then what they were using a combination of different straws that they’d wrap up the cider in, and then press it and this big giant would impress. And you’ll you’ll see those beautiful, round circular Apple crushing circles at the museum day and and different cider ease and the put flowers in it. The only use it now for really like demonstration like historical demonstrations. But that’s part story of it. You know, just so you gotta start somewhere. Yeah. How do you crush a nap? You know? You need some, a whole bunch of apples to to make juice. Yeah, you didn’t July.

So let’s talk about towns that you hit on this tour.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So on the tour that I do, we have gone to the zoo, because that’s very close to the root to see if there but a lot of folks listening to join us in France and who have heard you know about cheeses. They’ll know. The cheese come a bear. Yeah. But there is a pound that is private spelled like him a bear. But it’s cam Rehmat. It’s CAMBRE MER. Yeah. And that’s right in the heart of the route to see the and in that area. There’s just a whole flurry of cider ease. And these are producers who are very used to doing tours. Oh, and they’ll have an tasting room. And you could set up a tour you could do a tasting and I’ll have cider products, such as you know, the this cedar Bush, and then they’ll have promo, which is a blend of cider and Cavazos and then they also sell Kava dose. So also like one, go, yes, yeah,

I just you said you mentioned CW Shay. So what is that? Yeah. Is that like a cider? That’s not from a barrel but but in a bottle?

It’s in a bottle? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s in the bottle of

I could get really technical and I don’t want to kind of overwhelm listeners. So it’s almost like you got to go to Norman just to kind of know all the different ways that they make cider there. But they, they will use the champagne method for making cider. And, and that’s really a trademark name for the French. But that’s bottle conditioning to create the bubbles. So for winemaking, you make your initial you know, wine from the grapes. And they store the bottles upside down during that initial fermentation. So they make the wine to put in the bottle and it store it upside down and there’s sediment in that bottle. that they’ll do what’s called riddling, they’ll turn the bottle in a little turn. And then that plug will go to the top of the bottle, they’ll freeze that and they’ll take the the cork out, there’s just enough pressure because there’s been some, you know, residual sweetness in that bottle, continue fermenting. Throw out that plug the put a cork can and let it bottle condition and then you’ll get these exquisite small little bubbles in a bottle conditioned bottle of cider or you know that champagne method. Okay, and that’s the so that’s the seat of a bushy Yeah, you’ll get that and see the blue shape. But you might see some people are forced carbon dating and then you’re going to have a larger bubble. That’s a difference between bottle condition and forced carbonation. The bubbles are really of a different size. Champagne bubbles are very small and delicate.

Right? It throws a bouquet you right to this? Yeah,

yeah, it’s it’s using a traditional method in potatoes.

Yeah, it’s just a cider. Just like a cider under a cork. Okay. That’s what that means. Right? So yeah, she just means support. And, and it’s just a delightful cider. I mean, you just, you know, get a bottle of that you have some wonderful French bread and some nice soft cheeses and you out to the orchard and just take in Normandy just really breathing in. I’d like I’d like to recommend to both our listeners a great, great times to go to Normandy, I would recommend to really experience the apples and pears is blossom season, which just ended I believe in Normandy, right, it was like last week. Oh, happening. And that’s a wonderful time to just see the countryside. I mean, let’s face it may is beautiful, isn’t it?

Yeah. Is it blooming where you are right now? Oh, it has been. But this May is particularly raining all over France. And so yeah, this year, you would have run it, especially in Normandy, you would have run into a lot of rain, even to lose was pretty rainy this year. So which is unusual for us.

Yeah, that’s the same true in New England where I am. So I, I like leading my side tours in the fall. So I have set up for the last week of September. And I’ve been going the last week of September to Normandy, because I always find and you know, knock on wood, it’s always sunny. And the best part is, the apples and pears are on the trees, right? So you could actually taste that Apple or pear. Even the ones that you’re not going to fully Munch down and you could get a little bit of the taste. And then when you’re drinking, the product that’s made from at the side of this made from you, it really brings you deeper into the bottle. And that’s an absolute joy because there’s some varieties that are growing in Normandy and Brittany that you don’t see anywhere in the world. And they should only be grown in that region because they work so well with that soil. That that’s part of the fascination so really, like, you know, farm to table product. And boy, love it. Yeah. Yeah. So I’d recommend for folks, you know, who want to explore who wants to drive their own car and go out, you know, head out to the route to cider, I would, I would recommend two different regions of Normandy. Go out to that route to Sita, and, and make some stops along the way. Do a little bit of research know what they want to do to kind of stay in that area. I haven’t stayed right in the town of Kim. MM. I said can you help me with the pronunciation of that town? The How would you say America but we so that that is exquisite little town. There’s you know, little cheese museum experience. You could go to PF hoot, that’s a spidery there, they’ve been there open their tasting room. And right behind that cider EPF boot is a beautiful garden. And the it’s it’s open to the public. It cost very minimal. It’s just right up the hill, behind PF booth the cider. So the Saturday is pa How do you spell the last name? HUET? Yeah. And so right in that town, you’re right there. There’s places to get food. You could find Airbnb ease in a nice bed and breakfast is that’s a nice region. I mean,

so I guess the town of Cumberland a

population? I don’t know specifically it for me going in. It’s just a quaint little town. It’s not like the zoo. The zoo is much larger. They have large hotels there. Yeah. And kind of bustling. But combat is a very quaint and small.

I’m looking it up. Oh, he’s very small. It’s under 2000. People.

Yeah. It’s cute, though.

Very good. Oh, it’s got this little church and a Manoir and a couple of churches? Yeah, it looks it looks like a very quaint town. But I mean, oh, and Simon vape had a house there. Simon very, very famous French politician. I see.

So right. Right in that region, you know, you have some very fine producers. Another producer I’d recommend is domain du Pont. That spelled DUPONT. And the interesting story about that domain is that the great great grandfather was able to buy that estate by selling Calvin dos. So you know, Calvin, commodity. And that’s how that family was able to acquire domain DuPont. Way back when, huh. And now so many years, they’re world renowned. They have a wonderful tasting room. And fantastic Kava dose. And they are pretty innovative with their cider. I’ve had Jerome du Pont, who unfortunately left us too early at the age of 48, less august of 2018. But he he traveled the world, you know, and was a real major force behind innovation for cider. But his father is still there. And it changed to Paul. And that’s exquisite siree, highly recommend is probably the one that people in the cider realm in the US always want to go to domain apart. And there’s a good reason for that.

Hmm. Yeah, and they don’t I mean, I don’t, I don’t purchase a lot of cider. But I don’t remember ever seeing that brand. So they probably have a fairly small production,

I would guess, where they’re exporting a lot worldwide, some of these. And that’s true for a lot of producers, you might just be able to find their product at their tasting room. And you might be lucky enough to see the the farmer, if they’re not out milking the cows. I mean, that’s the way it is, you kind of have to wait and, and that that’s the fun of it, if you have time traveling. And normally, if you’re doing a tour, as you all know, you, you know, you’re going to meet the maker, they’re going to have that time set aside, you’re going to really be taught and leading around which you can’t be guaranteed when you’re just traveling solo, but you know, there’s, that’s the benefit of having solo to is to be on your own. Yeah, another side of me, I’d like to mention there is PS rules. And that’s PRE capital, JULES. And that’s like a father and son team. They, they been around for quite a long time. And they have a lovely tasting room. Very nice product, they export quite a bit to the US. So any Americans listening will have seen their product, but there’s nothing like, you know, going to the location and drinking where the product was made, whether that’s cheese or bread, or cider or wine. Yeah, go. Just taste so. Yeah, so it’s bad. Read the source. Yes, right at the source. So I like that region. There’s a lot. You could there’s the route decider is really well marked on the road way, it’s easy to follow. You know, 40 kilometers, you could just spend two days leisurely going about

well, so there’s ups.

Yes. plenty of stuff, okay.

And producers to find, so you’d want to stay somewhere close by and live zoom is really nice. Because it’s a larger town, you have more options, perhaps for hotels. And it’s it’s close enough where you know, it’s a very minimal drive to, to to find ciders. I mean, their site is really close by see on the map. It’s like a stone’s throw from Okay, camera, man. Yeah, that’s so that’s a nice town. There’s a large you know, if you want to be visiting churches, there’s a large church there live in like a kind of like Cathedral. nice restaurants ago, too. But it wasn’t a super attractive time for me. So this year, on the side tour, we’re going to, instead of staying at the zoo, we’re going to own for the Yeah, just because it’s absolutely beautiful. And it gives you almost like a medieval Harbor Town sense. It’s very romantic. There’s cobblestone. There’s like an old section. And you’re right on the water. And the reason why you have it on the cover of join us in France. podcast because it’s beautiful, unique. It’s extremely scenic. Yeah. And it’s a good stepping off point for sightseeing. But allow me to just share with you one of my favorite cider makers, and she happens to be a woman. One of the few women I should say, who are making cider and very successfully is a God led TA and she’s just outside of on flu. Probably. You just drive along the water there and she’s in the town of pen to paper. And her salary is called Manoir The Apprentice.

Okay, yeah, spell that. So I get that. I get that. But what’s her last name?

La TA and that is spelled LETEWLIER

letting you


All right. She’s fantastic. She’s actually the Vice President for the Appalachian and control in Normandy for all the cow videos. So she’s highly regarded. She’s, she speaks English. And I love her side really welcomes a lot of tours. But as you’re driving up to her orchard, you’re seeing in the orchard these giant pictures of cows. That, you know, it would kind of seem like what the heck, that’s kind of silly, maybe even kind of commercially, but she doesn’t so eloquently is it really has that like feminine touch, invite you to drive into the orchard up into the tasting room. We always do her Norman buffet, which he does four sided tours. It’s a classic normal buffet, a really simple food of cheeses and salads and some meat all like fresh and farm, a really healthy meal with her cider, which is fantastic.

Yeah, because I met Norman buffet. I’m expecting mussels and fries and grapes. So this is more like a different

kind of like a farm, you know, farm experience, and it is unique. And that’s why I always go see her on the tour. She’s so funny, and so inviting. And super knowledgeable. So she’s not pretentious, by any means. That’s great. And she’s a woman.

Yeah. And what’s what’s the name of the town again?

The town is called pen to pee. And which is kind of a fun town to say. Let me see on the map of if you’re not spelled, so wait, but I’m going to try to spell it out for you. It’s PE and NDEPE. And there’s not really a town there at all. It’s just

a spot on the map.

Okay, and what and her and her cider is called Manoir DL. So,

manner? Yeah, it’s a small d apostrophe. Capital APREVAL.

Okay. Well, I’m glad you’re here. I’m glad you spelling those hot cuz I wouldn’t have guessed. You know, nice. Great.

Yeah, so I’m flirt is lovely. And there is, you know what’s interesting, there are some stores and finding cider, other than going to producers can be a little bit difficult than normally which myself surprise visitors coming from the States because we’re used to going to any package store liquor store and finding a whole selection of craft, beverages. But in in Normandy, at least you’ll find wine, but you have to really seek out the cider. And you so you could go to men with the apparel, you could do that. And there is a store in on Florida that has French products. So you’ll see cider there. But another another tip for listeners is that. And I love this. The National Parks, gift stores in France National Forest parks like in Qatar, which is in Normandy, there’s a castle, which is lovely, has a visitor center and in that Visitor Center, they have Norman products and they have a whole bevy of cider products and portray right there. Who would think you

know a woman Why not? That’s that’s a good to have it. It is Yeah,

yeah, we don’t have that option.

So on floor is kind of like in that region. You’re now if you go north, you won’t find too much cider. But you’ll find just enough kind of sparkles here and there. And actually, on the tour I’m doing in the fall, we’re going to go up to the White Cliffs of and I’m going to make mistake pronounce my pronunciation, but I call it it’s fat. But

I you know, I just did a hot at hooked up. Yes.

Yes, thank you. And just because it’s so fantastic. So it’s not too far from home flow. Okay, that could be a nice, no station for people to stop. And the other thing I like about on flirt, if by chance you’re happening to travel with kids, right in the harbor there. You could walk to a ferris wheel. And they have like, I believe it’s there. You know, all summer long, huh? So it could be a place for both adults, and you have some kids, it could be a nice destination. I would recommend any parents traveling with children to really not build up your kids until you know, it’s definitely going to be there, you know that the ferris wheels going to be there. But I always see. And that’s kind of a nice addition to the Yeah. So, for me that that is like, just to kind of think of, if you had like four days, that’s about all I would do without overtaxing myself and certainly if you are driving yourself, that is a lot of cider to be tasty. So maybe have a little sip, maybe sip and you know,

so how many how many cider ease Would you stop at? Like in a day?

For me on a in a day? I I would probably only do like three ciders at the top if I’m driving alone. Yeah. When Alenia tour we might do only three two only because we’re just there and we’re getting such an insider’s view or even able to drink more and not worry about and then we have like later on the motor coach and we’re drinking more but that’s the beauty of French ciders is you could drink a lot, but because of low alcohol, you’re not getting tipsy. So you could do a little bit more than the average beer. But you know, that’s really individual choice. And you want to be really careful on the roadway. Yeah, about that. Like, yeah. The, you know, the nice thing of cider and this region as you’re doing the cider, but there’s so much sightseeing and and of course, we know that this is the 75th anniversary year for D day. that’s taking place so it’s kind of a busy time. Certainly. Coming up in June. Yeah. And a few days along the Yeah, right. Like June six. There, there’s all you’ll start seeing and if you’re not used to seeing it might catch you by surprise, but you’re going to start seeing bunkers and concrete things that were built by the Nazis you know to go over that site and it’s really it’s overwhelming if you haven’t seen that before and then soul Your eyes will adjust and you’ll start seeing more of it along the coast and it’s it’s really a very powerful experience. Yeah,

they had fortifies because they had fortifications all along the coast there Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So that that region I’m normally it’s called paid coach and I I can’t help but want to mention to the listeners that just the southern part of Normandy is a different region and though they make cider there, down for the poor egg, which is made the pears and their trees there are, some of them are over 300 years old. Wow. Which is just insane. So I really recommend to go down to don’t fall to go, you know, you just drive south from on floor. You could go through conch as you’ve been there that that is it’s cut, you know, it’s a big city. Cool, right? But yes, conch

Yes. co q ue.

No, CAENO Kong?

Yes. Yeah,


Yeah, Kong is like, I was like, What?


my pronunciation is not so great. But I couldn’t. It’s enough to get through and it which is good. Yeah. In February of 2020, they’re going to have a world cider Expo in conch. That is the first time ever taking place. And that’s over what we would consider Valentine’s Day weekend, they’re going to have one day open, where you could go and kind of like, like a beer fest or having a cider fest there. So that’s really called the world cider Expo. Yeah. Nice. Not, not that it’s a nice time to go travelling in February. No.

But but that’s gonna be a lot of locals, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Though. They’re, they’re opening it to the world market. So they’re hoping to have some international travelers. And I’m hoping to get to that too. But just south of that is the the what’s kind of like a very large town, they might consider it a city but that’s called don’t fall. And that’s now you’re in the heart of the pair country and it is a majestic landscape. And unlike paid those where you there’s producers are a little bit more businesslike. The producers in the front there farmers. By and large, they’re kind of a small group of people. And they make Cavazos a little bit different. It’s made with a base called a versus up and Pedro just made with cider. And most people in the world have no idea about this region. And it is if you’ve never tasted pot a it’s a little bit more delicate than cider. It has a different tannic structure and these pairs that grow their growth nowhere else in the world and frankly, it’s like my destination to go to that region and there is a way to there’s a museum to pull out a actually my group that I took their last year with first Americans to ever do a tour there’s really been Explorer. Now they just rebuilt it Yeah, I know. It’s fantastic. It’s just a fantastic read in a really friendly area and they’re there different they’re different kind of farmers who are pair farmers for

right good. Well hey, just means it’s like see the robot made with bears? Wow, is a pair in French so it’s Yeah, why not? You can make similar products with the pairs as you do with the apples.

That’s right. And and so there’s a little bit of sightseeing to that’s really worthwhile. You know, the UC deploy a the front is, you know, a big town there is Airbnb. Stay at and I think I sent you a link to one Airbnb did I recommend


Michelle Doris shake a pat him on my podcast. He He’s I think he was a colonel that houses like from 1100 or something. And if you’re lucky enough Hill, you could have, you know, pay to have a make you dinner, which he cooks everything. He gets all the food from a local farm, and it’s all cooked in pot A or C. That’s all sort of local farm. I mean, you can’t get more traditional and local food than that. And he’s wonderful. Just a

nice person. Yeah, I’ll try and I’ll put the Airbnb recommendation on on join us in France. The thing is with Airbnb, you never know if it’s going to be available. I mean, check it. Maybe it will be maybe it won’t be.

Right. So if that isn’t available, folks could go up to 200. And this is a very big tourist town. It’s a bug nose delay.

That’s a

Yes, thank you.

Yeah, you have me in hot sweats, man. I don’t know what you’re saying.

You had it.

The I need to give you some mentoring for French pronunciation. You need that?

I know. I know. You know, it’s hard in different countries. I’m supposed to learn Dutch. And then now I’m trying to learn French and yeah, yeah, yeah, I can’t

help you out at all.

The thing about that is there’s a lot of places to stay. And there is one particular hotel hotel, the guy yacht. They have two hotels owned in that town. But this That one’s right in downtown. It has a bar and it has a small shop. It’s not open on the restaurants not open on Thursdays nor it’s a small shop. But if you get there any of the time of the week, they have a cider on tap that is not really marked other than saying cider, but listeners should know that that side of being poured is being made by one of the most famous cider makers coming out of Normandy. And that’s Eric Bordelais, who was Paris is like top sommelier for many years until he went back to his family’s farm in Normandy is now making cider there.

And date. What’s his last name?

Bordelais. It’s spelled BOR, a bear spell that BORDELET.

Okay. Well, today you said it, right.

You can say yes, you’re saying don’t phone right, as well. So you’re not saying everything wrong? Just Just a few.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, that’s a great hotel tip. And their little shop. They also sell side of products there too. You could even get mushrooms, dried mushrooms, local mushrooms that are, you know, gourmet mushrooms to bring home to

Yeah, they’re in that area as well. Yeah.

Yeah. So that’s fun. And that pound is known as you might see a lot of things senior citizens because there’s hot hot tub, not hot tubs, but hot springs there. Yeah. Not not as we like in the Pacific, northwest of the US, but people go there for for health regions. And that’s a nice destination to get a hotel and into. There’s even a casino. So if you want

that kind of place. Okay, we have those in the parodies as well, where there’s a new casino for gambling, and there’s the hot springs and the thermal baths and the hotels and the things. Yeah.

Yeah. So I mean, there’s just so much in this region, you know, and, and cider now is starting to go in full swing there, they’re noticing what’s going on the rest of the world, I think the French have been kind of insular. But now they’re reaching out. And what’s really great about going there is but people visiting, you might actually help save an orchard or a 300 year old pear tree, because these farmers, like a lot of farmers don’t necessarily get the pass on their farm to the next generation, because their kids are going off to other places they don’t see cider is sexy yet. And hopefully, that will change. And people come back and preserve this landscape, which is so unique.

brand is very true. You know, cider in France has this quaint kind of image. You eat cider, you drink cider, when you go to Normandy and Brittany and, and the Basque Country. And yeah, it’s, it’s for festive activities. But it’s not something we buy. I think I do have a bottle of cider in my wine fridge. So you know, but you have 50 bottles of wine and one of cider.

And you don’t really, we don’t consume that much of it, which is too bad because it is very pleasant. It really is. I think that’s going to change. And now there’s actually a restaurant in Paris called palms POMZ. They were just awarded a Michelin bid. And it’s a total ciders centric restaurant. Oh, it’s actually the last night of our tour. In Paris, when we return to Paris. In September, we’re going to have our final cider dinner at palms. And so you wouldn’t have seen that a couple years ago in Paris decider centric restaurant like that. That’s true. Just gonna, do you know, that’s true.

So tell us the dates of yours, your upcoming cider tour? And where people can go read about it and book it.

Yeah, thank you for asking that. That tour is going out the last week of September. So it’s a 22nd to the 29th. Okay, sorry, the 22nd to the eighth of September, okay. And it starts and ends in Paris. And they could just go to the totally cider page as cider chat calm and the Find a secure link for reservations and more details. And they could always contact me directly for any info,

right. And I’ll put this link in the show notes on join us in France. com as well, so that people can easily find you. This is something that, you know, I have this is not something I would ever have thought to do. Honestly, it’s like really original. It’s it’s really it’s taking people to parts of France that are not super popular. There are not super famous except for obviously, that one is like Yes, a very popular, but but the other ones know you all the places you’ve mentioned, are, you know, low key very, very French, like very, very French. So that’s wonderful that you take people to these places. I really, I think it’s exciting.

It’s a pleasure for me, although we we aren’t going to spend a night on Mount St. Michelle this year, too. Because everybody, we visited it last year, but everybody said I wish we could spend a night at Mount St. Michelle. So we’re going to have a cider dinner at Mount St. Michelle this year. And that’s that’s that’s a big tourist attraction, as you well know. Oh, yeah. done some What? Some,

yeah, some episodes on religion. And, and my recommendation would be not to stay on the moon semi shell itself. But to stay off of it. I mean, you might have already made your reservations for the upcoming tour. But I prefer to go to one of the hotels, that’s, that’s where the bus because you have to park where they take a bus. And I think those hotels are fantastic. Because when you’re on the most ambitious, you cannot see the most me shell. Whereas if you’re off of it, you can take the bus separately, I think the bus runs till midnight or whatever. And even if you missed the last bus, it’s easy to walk it’s three kilometers or something, it’s not that big of a deal. And it’s totally flat and totally easy. But you know, you can you can see it, it’s gorgeous,

from a distance. So that would be my recommendation is not not to stay on the moon, or for that matter not to eat either button. Yeah, yeah. Well, we, you know, we got a lot of feedback from the group last year. And a lot of times people, you know, just to see the water surround you that that wave coming in, and to experience it folks really, really want to stay there. So I said, you know, let’s, let’s offer it this year. Yeah, and see what that experience is, like, could you could always walk a bit off the Mount, say, Michelle, and, and and take that view, you know, you it’s plenty of opportunity to do that. But to actually say that you stayed on Mount St. Michelle, I know, you know, everybody would like small little bags, and we won’t be bringing our our luggage is going to be like, it’s kind of an adventure, like, pack lightly and go into the multi Michelle, and then wander around there.

You don’t want to drag a suitcase up there, you do not. Even if you’re healthy and strong. It’s not a good it’s not a fun thing to do. Because it’s all cobblestone and it’s pretty steep. You know? As you know,

yeah. So yeah, it’s beautiful. Really beautiful. It’s worth the visit.

Yeah, all right. Wonderful. Well, we’ve been chatting for over an hour, my friend. We knew there was so much to say about cider.

And I just started, I look, I really appreciate your time what you do with the podcast, I really recommend for folks to subscribe to join us on French. Join us in France. It’s wonderful. All the tips that you do from landing at the airport, how to manage getting into Paris, the sight to see even notre DOM, even though that, you know, we lost and saw the fire, there’s still so much to be gained. And what you bring out in your stories is fantastic. I really appreciate your work.

Well, thank you. Thank you. I, we like to I like to keep it real, my whole purpose was to rediscover my own country. But also, there’s so much just marginally relevant information about travel to France, there are a lot of blogs, where people just tell you, as you know, because you’re a podcaster, and you have a you have a blog, the best way to rank in Google is to repeat the same stuff that already ranks, right, you just do it better, a little bit better. And then you get to the first page. The problem with that is everybody keeps repeating the same information. And some of that is just what people want to hear. But it’s not like me, it’s not the best advice. And I’m very passionate about telling people, you know, French people never do it this way. And there’s a reason for that. It’s because we prefer to do it this other way. And I think it’s valuable for people to hear that because they they just keep doing the same trips with the same itineraries. So that’s why I’m so glad you do this.

It’s totally different. It’s great. It’s awesome. And you bring a great voice, Annie, because you’ve been in the US you have a a French perspective, and us knowledge so you’re really able to cross the borders and bring us all together. And that I think is such a strength of who you are.

Well, thank you so much. You’re very kind. It’s been a delight to talk to you Rhea. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast and hello to all your listeners. If they come to France. We’ll be happy to have them listen to my podcast as well, obviously and, and ask me questions. And that’s what I do. I enjoy doing that sort of work.

Thank you, Annie. And I like to say, I’ll begin to

I began to Yes, almost don’t see the tea at the end again to

a BN to exactly.

Oh, wow, thank you so much.

Over Thank you, Andrew Crowder,


to Rebecca stall, Sarah Shay mo and Ellie Rodriguez for pledging to support the show on Patreon this week. And my thanks also to all the other patrons who support the show month after month. Thank you for giving back. Would you buy me a coffee if we met in real life? Well, you can do that by supporting this show on Patreon for as little as $2 per month. You can also support at higher levels for custom help with your trip planning or French conversation or anything else that you need. Somebody who’s French for him, visit forward slash join us. PATREON. Join us no spaces or dashes to see the different reward tiers. And thank you so much for giving back. So now about this scam I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, listener k from Portland, sent in this warning. I hadn’t heard about this yet. So I want you to to hear what she wrote. So she was in a monopoly and the southwest of France. She says when leaving the permanent of B roll up, repugnant up. It’s just a nice, beautiful park area. Walking through a passage lined with trees. My family three of us got splattered with bird poop. It was in our hair and on our clothes. Two people walking besides us, a young woman and a man said they got some on them too, and pointed to the trees and said it was birds. One of them had baby wipes and handed a few sheets to us to clean off and one woman was cleaning my hair while the man was vigorously cleaning the poop off the back of my father’s pants. Something about the situation seemed a little bit off the poop was green and didn’t have any white and smelled like Dijon mustard. Another woman appeared with wipes and kept wanting to help us clean each other off. This continued for a couple of minutes the group of people looked slightly Spanish, and spoke a little Spanish but broken English. We eventually parted ways we need to read online that the gypsies have a bird poop scam. This has been around for years where they squirt you with a liquid mixture, including mustard or chocolate and claim it’s bird poop. And then they pick your pockets. While they help you clean off. We later told our hotel desk clerk who called the police to report it. Luckily, nothing was stolen. She says I should have read more up on the scams before leaving on the trip. But I am thankful we can just use this as a learning experience. Yes, big pockets have a lot of tricks up their sleeve. As a matter of fact, we did a whole episode about that. It’s called How to protect yourself from pickpockets in Paris. It’s Episode 154. Thank you so much for pointing that out K and if you hear or see of a scam, that’s new to you let me know because, yeah, knowledge, a little bit of knowledge will help a lot in in a situation like this. Okay, big changes coming to the scooters, the electric scooters in Paris, you know, these little electric scooters, you see all of the parents these days, there’s been a lot of complaints about them. And the mayor of Paris and need ago decided to act. So right now there are a minimum of 20,000 scooters in Paris, owned by 12 different companies. People who work for these scooter companies said they say it’s more like 40,000 scooters. But of course, these companies have no incentive to not be quite as straightforward as they should be about how many they have littering the streets, really.


it’s a lot, whatever it is, it’s a lot. And these scooters cause accidents. It’s new enough that we don’t have a lot of data about that. But they are a big problem. So they’re not they’re not all bad. You know, like we mentioned on a previous episode, teenagers love them. So instead of making them walk, you give them a scooter and they’ll be very happy exploring Paris on a scooter. Also they are good because they take they get some cars off the street, people who would have taken their car to go somewhere now take a scooter and they pollute a lot less than a car, obviously. But the big problem is that they get dropped off in the most ridiculous places. And they cause people to trip and fall originally will support those were supposed to, you know, you’re supposed to drop them off anywhere where it’s not a problem. Well, everybody’s idea of a good place to drop off is not the same. So the and they’re also an eyesore, I think anyway, so what’s going to happen? First thing in the near future, there will only be two or three scooter companies allowed in Paris. And these are going to be the two or three companies that have the infrastructure to do this, right. And that’s important because it’s free for all right now. So you have a lot of fly by night organizations throwing scooters on the streets to just to see if they can make a buck. And that isn’t right, we don’t want that that’s like awful, the speed limit of the scooters will be reduced from 25 kilometres per hour to 20 kilometres per hour. And that’s good because they zoom up awfully fast. The thing I like the best about these changes is that they will have to be parked in a parking space. Not up against the tree where they fall, because this just this couple of sticks really not up against the building where they reduce the width of the sidewalk so much that they force people to walk on the road. That’s true, especially in the movie, not outside of the metro entrance. Because after a while, there’s so many of them that they just they pile up and it’s like a mountain of crap near the metro entrance. So they will have to park them in a parking spot or get fined. Now, of course, what’s going to happen is the schools are going to fall on the cars and do damage to the cars that are parked nearby. Yeah, I don’t I don’t own a car in Paris. So I’m not worried about it too much. But that that is going to be a problem as well. But I think these are very positive changes. And I hope they get implemented quickly. There’s been no date set, too when but because they are going to boot out several of these companies, there’s probably going to be a bidding process of you know, show us that you’ve got what it takes to to run these scooters in Paris. And that’s that’s going to take a while but I’m hoping for changes very, very soon. If you want to recommend this podcast to someone who is not a podcast listener, I recommend that you send them to join us in France. com because there they will be able to read a summary of the episode and click on the Play button. And of course if they are podcast listeners, they already know about their favorite podcasting app and they can listen on the go all they have to do is search for join us in France. We are everywhere on all these podcasting apps everywhere. Send questions or feedback to Annie at join us in France. com. Have a wonderful week of trip. Next week I’ll release an episode with Elise about the Asia and again back down to the southwest of France to obsess Danny and it will be a lot of fun. Talk to you next week of the join us in France travel podcast is written and produced by Annie Sargent and copyright 2019 by addicted to France. It is released under Creative Commons Attribution non commercial no derivatives license

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Categories: Normandy & Brittany, Off the Beaten Track in France