Table of Contents for this Episode
Categories: Alsace and Lorraine, Paris
[00:00:16] Introduction and Welcome
Annie: This is Join Us in France, episode 551, cinq cent cinquante et un.
Annie: Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent, and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France.
[00:00:30] Today on the podcast
Annie: Today, I bring you a conversation with Kim Cox about her enchanting trip to France, including a visit to the reopened Notre-Dame de Paris, exploring Parisian neighborhoods, winter markets, and hidden gems.
Annie: Are you planning a winter trip to France? Now is the time to do it. Then perhaps you’d like to indulge in some travel inspiration. This episode is packed with tips and heartfelt experiences that you won’t want to miss.
[00:00:57] Podcast supporters
Annie: This podcast is fueled by chocolatine, caffeine, and the generosity of wonderful humans like you.
Annie: Maybe you’ve booked an itinerary consult, taken a VoiceMap tour, joined me in my electric car, come to the boot camp, or sent a few euros my way on Patreon, and I appreciate it more than you know.
Annie: Want to help me keep going and skip the ads? There’s a link for that in the show notes. Visit joinusinfrance.com/boutique. And merci beaucoup.
[00:01:30] The Magazine segment
Annie: For the magazine part of the podcast, after my chat with Kim today, I’ll discuss a big solar project going on right in the heart of Paris, and I’ll update you on my crazy six weeks when I was mostly away from my computer.
Annie: If you want all the links and the full episode transcripts, you’ll find everything on the page that lists all episodes by month at joinusinfrance.com/episodes. And if you’d like a handy summary of the conversation with all the useful link, subscribe to the newsletter at joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
Annie: That’s the best way to stay in the loop.
[00:02:18] Notre Dame Museums and Winter Magic with Kim Cox
Annie Sargent: Bonjour Kim Cox and welcome to Join Us in France.
Kim Cox: Bonjour, Annie.
Annie Sargent: Maybe I should say welcome back because you were a boot camper. Maybe you were on the boot camp episodes.
Kim Cox: I was not on the episode, but I was in the boot camp, my husband and I were in the very first boot camp.
Kim Cox: Wonderful. Yes, it was a wonderful time. And I’m thick in the middle of planning the next one, so… Well, they’re going to have so much fun.
Annie: Thank you. A
[00:02:45] Notre Dame Reopening Experience
Annie: ll right, Kim, you had a recent trip to France. You went to Paris and Strasbourg, and I want to hear about the things you particularly enjoyed spending this time in France.
Kim Cox: Well, the highlight had to be getting to see the reopening of Notre Dame.
Kim Cox: And, it was just… I would have been disappointed had we not been able to get in, but it was easy.
Kim Cox: It really was. And I think the advice that I would give is get the app. Make sure you get the Notre Dame app, because we knew before we came, we were lucky and we were following it on the news, and we knew that it was going to be open about a week or two before we got there.
Kim Cox: We went to Strasbourg first, and then came to Paris, and we were there during Christmas. But we knew that it was going to be opening, and were following the news and saw that you could get your tickets two days in advance.
Kim Cox: And so I assumed that they would probably open them up at midnight, because I kept… even prior to that time, I had the app and I would just kind of play around with it and see what was available just so I could get an idea.
Kim Cox: And so, the two days before we wanted, so we visited on the 21st of December, at midnight, the 18th, the night of the 18th, so the morning of the 19th, I logged in and had my choice of times.
Annie: Wonderful.
Kim Cox: We could have gone any time that day. There were probably 10 times listed. And I clicked on, I think we went one o’clock in the afternoon, and it was great. When we got there, there was a long line for people who did not have tickets and who were waiting to get in. And I talked to somebody at the front and they said it was about a two-hour wait at that time.
Annie: Oof. Yeah, that’s a long time.
Kim Cox: It is. And it was raining, so it wasn’t the best. But with our reservation, we just walked right up to the front door, went through security, and walked right in.
Annie Sargent: Fantastic.
Kim Cox: I would suggest doing that. It might not be as long a wait in January, February, that time of year, maybe late in the day, early in the day. But I imagine it’ll get crowded again in the spring and summer.
Annie Sargent: Oh, I’m sure. Spring and summer, lots and lots of people are going to want to see it. We can see that there’s a huge interest in the cathedral, which makes sense. It’s gorgeous, right?
Kim Cox: It was absolutely incredible. I’ve been there eight or nine times before because we’ve been to Paris many, many times and every time we go… But I guess I haven’t been there… I’ve been to Paris eight or nine times. It’s been closed the past few times, so maybe I’ve been four or five. But when I walked in, it was just beautiful. It was so bright. It was funny because I enjoy architecture and history, and I’ve read so much about the Gothic architecture and the flying buttresses, and they always say the flying buttresses are to hold up the sides of the walls so that they can let in the light.
Kim Cox: And although I thought they were beautiful and I loved the architecture, I never really understood letting in the light until now. Because now you go in and the windows are beautiful, and not just the rose windows, but all of them. They’re the most beautiful blue. and it was raining that day and it was still very bright. And they haven’t changed anything. They’ve just cleaned it.
Kim Cox: Yeah.
Kim Cox: So I know people are concerned that it’ll be a different place. It’s not a different place. It’s just brighter and cleaner. And it was just absolutely gorgeous. The things that I noticed too, the side chapels are all open now. In the past, they were pretty dingy and some of them I even think they used for storage or in disrepair. Now they’re all operational and clean. The paintings have been cleaned. There’s one chapel that has the most beautiful blue ceiling that I’ve ever seen, and it is just… It’s breathtaking now.
Annie Sargent: How long did you spend in there and how long would you recommend people spend inside of the cathedral?
Kim Cox: It depends what you want to do. I mean, it’s a very, very special place for me. I think the very first place we went the very first time we visited Paris, and I just love it. I’m not a particularly religious person, but I find peace there. Whenever I’m in there, I sit down for a moment and it occurs to me that people came to pray for their loved ones during the plague.
Kim Cox: Of course, now we’ve all survived a plague too. But I think about it and I think, “Well, if it worked out for them, my problems will probably work themselves out as well.”
Kim Cox: So it just sort of gives me some peace. So I like to spend a little more time than most people. You could go in and out in half an hour and get a really good sense of it. But we probably spent easily about an hour. We might have spent more, but it was very crowded. I will say it was very crowded.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. And you can go into the crypt as well. There’s a bit of a fee for that.
Annie Sargent: The crypt is a collection of the, kind of the jewels of the cathedral. The beautiful vestments and things that the bishops of Paris have collected over the centuries.
Kim Cox: I’ve been down there before. We didn’t go this time. Although, there is an area in the back now where they do have displayed the Crown of Thorns.
Kim Cox: Oh, wow.
Kim Cox: So we were lucky enough… Or you know, supposedly, the Crown of Thorns.
Kim Cox: Yeah.
Kim Cox: We were able to see that as well and that it, that chapel is quite impressive even on its own.
Kim Cox: All the way past the altar in the back.
Annie Sargent: Okay.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, and about getting tickets, I would say, it’s going to get… It’s going to be fairly easy. I’m going in January, it’s going to be fairly easy. But it will get more difficult in May and et cetera.
Annie Sargent: But the fact that they don’t let people just reserve up all the tickets and then try to scalp them, which is what they would do, you know? That they would say, “Oh, skip the line at Notre Dame for 50 bucks,” and lots of people would go for it. The fact that it’s just one day or two days before is actually a good thing, because it’s going to stop that and, a lot of us, as we get older, we kind of wake up in the night perhaps to go to the bathroom. That would be the time to check.
Kim Cox: Get your tickets then!
Annie: Yes, yes, yes. Get your tickets then. Or like you mentioned, go either early or late, you know? And perhaps it’s easier. I don’t know. In May, I think it’s going to be mobbed again. It’s going to be lots and lots of people.
Kim Cox: I would encourage the reservation system. It did work well. There were some folks out there sort of milling around talking to some of the people in line suggesting they could perhaps pay and get in. Know that that’s a scam.
Kim Cox: Yes.
Kim Cox: There are no tickets to be sold. It’s free!
Kim Cox: Yes.
Kim Cox: As a matter of fact, isn’t it free to go into all churches in France?
Annie Sargent: In France churches are free, what they charge you for sometimes is to go see the treasure or the crypt, which is the same in Notre Dame.
Annie Sargent: Also, once they reopen the bell towers, they’re not open yet, but once they reopen those, you will need a paid ticket for that. So cathedrals themselves are free in France. I can’t think of a single one where I’ve ever had to pay anything to enter, but you have to pay sometimes for things that are adjacent to the church.
Kim Cox: If someone is visiting and if someone suggests that you can pay or online or anything like that, know that that is not… That’s not a thing. That’s a scam.
Annie Sargent: It is not a thing. I hadn’t heard about that, thank you for mentioning it, because I’m sure again some people will fall for it or they wouldn’t even try. Yep.
Annie Sargent: Right.
[00:10:27] Exploring Strasbourg’s Christmas Markets
Annie Sargent: All right, so the second thing, your second favorite thing that you mention on your list is Christmas markets in Strasbourg.
Kim Cox: Incredible.
Kim Cox: Yeah?
Kim Cox: Just beautiful. Just beautiful. They’re everywhere. It’s not like there’s just one place that you go. We enjoy walking, so we would just set out and look at neighborhoods and enjoy walking around, and it seems like every corner we’d turn, we’d find a new Christmas market.
Kim Cox: And they’re all somewhat different, which is wonderful. They all have a little bit of a different flair. You’ll come upon some where it, it’s heavily food-focused and they have like picnic tables out and it looks as if almost the whole community is out there having dinner together.
Kim Cox: And it’s wonderful. And then others are more focused on preps and Christmas ornaments, or artisan types ofproducts. But it was just beautiful, we really enjoyed it.
Annie: How long did you spend?
Kim Cox: We were in Strasbourg for three nights.
Annie: And just Strasbourg? You didn’t try to go do anything else?
Kim Cox: We kind of wanted to. We were going to try to go to Colmar and maybe some other places, but no, we just didn’t have time. One of the things I’m really learning and probably as I get older on trips is I try not to pack too much into it, because then when I do that I don’t enjoy anything. It feels like it’s work.
Kim Cox: We really were trying to do just a, maybe a couple things a day in addition to walking around and kind of getting a feel for neighborhoods and so forth. And it was just… it was fun to do it that way because it was relaxing.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Now, you were in Strasbourg before you went to Paris, so it was earlier December, right? You arrived what day?
Kim Cox: We were, actually flew into Munich and we were in Munich for three nights. I think we came on the 13th, 14th. So we were in Strasbourg on the 17th and 18th. Yes, that… For three nights.
Kim Cox: Okay. So pretty close to Christmas, really.
Kim Cox: It was very close and it was lovely.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, but it must’ve been very busy. Lots and lots of people, again.
Kim Cox: It would get busy in the evening, in the daytime you could still… I would suggest if people really want to shop, the time to do that is in the daytime. I think the market’s open at 11:00 AM and that’s a good time to actually… If you want to talk to the people who have their stand, that’s a really good time to do that…. and do some shopping and so forth. And then in the evening, that’s a good time for kind of milling around and having your vin chaud and just sort of enjoying the… enjoying the sights.
Annie Sargent: Was it very cold this year in Strasbourg?
Kim Cox: We were very lucky. I mean, I’m a Californian, so yeah, it was cold, but…
Kim Cox: Yeah.
Kim Cox: We had the right clothing and it never stopped us. I would say it was in,in Fahrenheit, the 40s, which wasn’t bad.
Annie Sargent: No, it’s really not bad. The year we went to Strasbourg, it froze… It was freezing in the middle of the day, you know? So it was cold.
Kim Cox: The thing in Strasbourg too that, I really wasn’t… didn’t know about but very much enjoyed were just walking the streets in the evening and seeing the decorations down the different streets and alleys. And they were just beautiful. Just gorgeous.
Annie Sargent: It’s all decked out, isn’t it? It’s like all the city is all decked out ready for Christmas.
Kim Cox: They are. And everyone’s in a good mood and very friendly and it was wonderful. And there’s some wonderful things to do there. I know we’d had some time together before the trip and you were, you graciously shared some of your ideas and we went to the City Museum, which was wonderful.
Kim Cox: And we went on the boat cruise, which my husband affectionately called the snooze cruise.
Annie Sargent: That’s all right. Well, if you were jet… No, you weren’t jet lagged because you had been to Munich first.
Kim Cox: I think he, he was just tired. But it was a nice little boat trip. The thing that was really cool about it is that you get to go in a lock.
Kim Cox: And we don’t often get to do that, and you get to see how that works. Like a little elevator to bring you up or down and that was really…
Annie Sargent: Yeah, so that depends on the tour. Some of them don’t, but I, I’m pretty sure most of them you do get to go through the lock.
Kim Cox: Yeah, and that was really cool. It was fun. We had a good time.
Kim Cox: Wonderful.
Annie Sargent: All right.
[00:14:46] Living Like a Local in Paris
Annie Sargent: So shopping for food and walking our parisian neighborhood like a local. That sounds fun. Which… What was your Parisian neighborhood this time?
Kim Cox: We stayed at a VRBO in the 15th…
Kim Cox: Aha.
Kim Cox: … and it’s very much, very much a neighborhood, it’s not a tourist area.
Kim Cox: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: Wasn’t it you that was… your VRBO was on Rue du Commerce?
Kim Cox: It was the street over Rue des Entrepreneurs.
Kim Cox: The Rue des Entrepreneurs. Yes, yes, yes.
Kim Cox: And it was a block away from Rue de Commerce, which was perfect.
Kim Cox: Yeah, Rue du Commerce is fun, isn’t it?
Kim Cox: Yes. We just so enjoyed walking up and down the street and we adopted several of the shops as our own, so we made fast friends with the cheese, the fromager, I never can say that. Fromagere?
Kim Cox: Fromagerie.
Kim Cox: Thank you. Fromagerie. We made very good friends with him and went there a few times and got some lovely cheeses.
Kim Cox: And of course at the patisserie, the boulangerie, thenthe wine shop, of course. We loved doing that. As a matter of fact, one of our favorite memories was on Christmas Eve, we had a dinner out on Christmas Eve night, but we knew that for Christmas Day, pretty much everything was going to be closed. So we wanted to, on Christmas Eve, go out and get our food that we would have for Christmas Day.
Kim Cox: So we went to about six or seven different shops, just putting our meal together, and we had one of those rolling carts and just walked up and down the street … and got our food and it… We just felt like we were real parisians that day.
Kim Cox: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: So your VRBO included a rolling cart?
Annie Sargent: It did.
Annie Sargent: That’s a splendid idea.
Kim Cox: It was very, very fun.
[00:16:33] Picard, Frozen Foods
Kim Cox: And one of the other places we found that we enjoyed, we enjoyed for hors d’oeuvres and also for one night we did, we did use it for dinner, was Picard, the frozen food.
Kim Cox: So tell me what you liked about that.
Kim Cox: Well, first of all, it’s like nothing we have in the United States. I know somebody compared it to, like, maybe a Trader Joe’s with just frozen food, but it wasn’t like that at all. It was very, very high-end frozen food.
Kim Cox: And you could get anything from frozen… just plain frozen vegetables and frozen fish that you could, you know, make on your own and make your own sauce and do whatever you want, or a full prepared meal. And all kinds of desserts and, I think they’re well known for their canapes, the hors d’oeuvres, which were lovely.
Kim Cox: Yep.
Kim Cox: We had those with some champagne on Christmas Day and it was wonderful. Anything you can think of, and it’s very well… I would say it’s very high end, very well done.
Annie Sargent: They’re well-packaged, they’re never freezer burned. The instructions on how to warm them up or use the products are very well researched, very well written. It’s just a well done frozen kind of food place. This year, I just got vegan foie gras from Picard. It was my first time trying it, and it wasn’t bad at all, you know? It tasted very good. Okay, I prefer the real thing. But if you want to be nice to the ducks, then buy the frozen one at Picard. You put it in the fridge to defrost for 24 hours and then it’s just perfect… you know?
Kim Cox: And it’s easy. It was lovely. And for I think two euro, I now have a Picard bag.
Kim Cox: A little grocery bag. And I now use it at home because it brings back nice memories.
Annie Sargent: Yes, yes. And a lot of European countries have kind of specialty frozen foods. In Spain it’s called La Sirena. It’s also very good, but Picard does a really, really, really good job with, like, traditional dishes that you can warm up at home, easily.
Annie Sargent: And at Christmastime, they go all out with the lobsters, the shrimp, all the seafood, the canapes, all sorts of really good stuff.
Annie Sargent: Oh, they had so much there. It was incredible.
Kim Cox: Stuffed turkey, stuffed pintade.
Kim Cox: The one, the, what’s it called? Triduck, triduck… the one that has the three different meats. They had that. They had everything.
Kim Cox: Yeah,
Annie Sargent: It’s hard not to buy one of everything at Picard.
Kim Cox: I know. I wanted to, but I’m like, “Okay, you’re only here a few days. You’re not going to eat it all.”
Kim Cox: That’s right. That’s right.
Kim Cox: I actually did leave an item in the freezer and told our host, I said, “Well, we didn’t get to one. It’s in the freezer. No one’s touched it.” And she wrote back and said she couldn’t wait.
Annie Sargent: Oh, yeah. French people go to Picard all the time. This is not a touristy thing. This is… Actually, most tourists probably don’t know about it. So Picard is a… is a good tip.
Kim Cox: Well, there were the shops everywhere. From where we stayed, we must have been close to at least three of them within walking distance. And so when we would take our walks, I would see them again, and we were laughing about it because I said, “Well, I’m sure they’ve been here around us every time we visited, but I’ve never noticed them before.”
Annie Sargent: Well, but because the 15th is a… a real neighborhood, like a real, where people live they have more of them. If you’ve had a long day at work, but you don’t want to eat out, you stop at Picard on your way home, you’ll eat a delicious dinner, and you haven’t had to do very much work. And it’s not that expensive either. The prices are reasonable.
Kim Cox: They really are. I mean, for a family, it would be wonderful to do that easily, and it’s much cheaper than eating out. That’s for sure.
Kim Cox: Ah, yep, it is.
Annie Sargent: Well, the free ad for Picard is over. Hey, they’re not paying us to say any of this. This is really what we think.
[00:20:35] Cafe Culture in Winter
Annie Sargent: You enjoyed cafe culture even in the winter.
Kim Cox: I did. It was our… We’d never been to Europe at all in… Well, no, I’d been to England in the winter. But I’d never been to France in the winter. And I was kind of a little bit worried, because I thought, “Well, it’s not going to be as much fun as it is in the summer, or in the spring or the fall,” because we enjoy walking so much, and getting out, and sitting in the cafe and watching the world go by, and that kind of thing. And I thought we would miss out on that, but we didn’t at all.
Kim Cox: The cafes are booming, even in the winter. There are people who sit outside, even when it’s freezing, and they’re generally the people who want to be out there because they want to smoke.
Kim Cox: Yep.
Kim Cox: But there was one day that, I think it was Christmas Day actually, when we were walking around, there was a cafe open, and we stopped, and it was pretty warm, so we just sat outside for a few minutes, and it was kind of nice.
Kim Cox: I will say, that I had not spent very much time in the cafes inside because I’ve always been outside because the weather’s been good. But inside is lovely.
Kim Cox: Some of the places they’re beautiful, they were beautifully decorated for the holidays. And they try to sit you by the window anyway, so you get to, to have that experience, but you’re not freezing, and the bonus is there’s no one smoking inside.
Annie: That’s right. That’s a big plus.
Kim Cox: So it was wonderful. We had a great time. I went to… we would go somewhere and usually stop at a cafe for lunch maybe or just to get a cup of coffee or a glass of wine or something, and sometimes that would turn into a meal.
Kim Cox: Yeah.
Kim Cox: But it was wonderful just sitting there, we got the same experience, I think, as sitting outside when we sat by the window and watched everyone, particularly with the holidays, walking by with, scurrying around getting their things, and it was wonderful.
Annie Sargent: That’s fantastic.
[00:22:25] Museums and Historical Insights
Annie Sargent: The next thing is the Strasbourg Historical Museum, but you already mentioned that you like that, so we’ll just move on to the Resistance Museum in Paris, which is also in the 15e, I think?
Annie Sargent:
Kim Cox: Yes. It was very, very well done. I had not really, I wasn’t really familiar with that. I believe you had mentioned it, because, you know, when you’ve been to Paris many, many times, the first few times, you do kind of the big hits, right?
Kim Cox: Then you start sort of delving into it a little bit further. And this is one I’d not gone to before. It looks like it’s been redone recently.
Annie Sargent: Oh, it’s not a very old museum, so this is the original. They haven’t redone it yet. I think it’s maybe 10 years old, no more than that.
Kim Cox: It’s very moving,and very, very informative. Everything is in French and English, so it’s easy to follow. The thing I really like is that it takes two people who were important during the Resistance and kind of follows their lives throughout the museum.
Kim Cox: So you get to follow these two individuals who are different, very different in focus, but you get to follow them from the beginning of their lives at the start, and then you follow them through the different time periods that they’re presenting, and you can see what…
Kim Cox: So it’s Jean Moulin. Who’s the other one?
Kim Cox: I can’t remember. Jean Moulin and then another…
Kim Cox: But, it’s fascinating. And then they show all of these other people. They make it very human. It’s not just like going to a museum and seeing the facts. It’s very human because they give a lot of information about specific individuals and what they did during the Resistance, their role, how it ended for them, that type of thing. So, I found it very moving. I wouldn’t take little children. I don’t think it would really be that appropriate. But I’d say anybody over, you know, 12.
Kim Cox: Yeah, yeah. Did you get to go into the bunker as well?
Kim Cox: We did not. We weren’t in the mood to walk down and up again, but…
Annie Sargent: Yeah. So in that museum, at specific times, one of the tour guides takes people down to the actual bunker. It wasn’t ever used for protection from bombing really, but it was used for meetings for the Resistance. And so it was an important place. It’s a bunch of steps and then cement rooms. And there’s a place for a bicycle where they could do a pump to get fresh air into the… into the… it was interesting, I don’t remember what all I saw, but it was really interesting, I thought. So if you have a chance, it might be good to go there as well.
Kim Cox: It was very fascinating. I think sometimes we don’t realize the contributions that were made by the individualswho were part of the Resistance, and how, you know, there were contributions large and small. But, you know, we may not be where we are today without it.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
(Mid-roll ad spot)
[00:25:20] VoiceMap Guided Walk in Strasbourg
Annie Sargent: You did a walk, guided walk on VoiceMap of Strasbourg.
Kim Cox: How did that go?
Kim Cox: It was great. We had a good time. You should do one because yours would be wonderful. But we did because you had introduced me to VoiceMap through your tours, I had the confidence to go in and try another one. We did that, and it was wonderful. Both my husband and I, we had the earbuds, and he had one and I had one, so we could listen at the same time.
Annie: Right, that works well, doesn’t it? I mean…
Kim Cox: It did. It really did. And we walked around the town. It was probably a couple hours. And you would stop it and go do something different for a while. But it was great. I loved it. It gave us all the history and the information, and I heartily recommend it.
Annie: Yeah, VoiceMap tours are just good, most of them. I did one once that I thought, “Eh.” But honestly, most of the people who start doing that kind of work because it’s… it’s hard work doing it… they really want to share something special about their city.
Annie: So I think it’s a good thing to do.
Kim Cox: It is a good… It is good. And then if you go off track, it tells you. Well, you hear, you hear the voice of Gandalf telling you that, “All who wander are not lost, but you might be.”
Kim Cox: Yes. “But you might be.”
Annie Sargent: Yes, yes. I try to avoid that voice. So as soon as he comes on, I’m like, “Oh, what’d I do?”
[00:26:48] Visiting the Carnavalet Museum
Annie Sargent: You enjoyed the Carnavalet Museum. Was this your first time going back, or your first time ever?
Kim Cox: It was my first time ever. We had not been. Now, that one I know has been redone recently, and I was anxious to see it, primarily because of the architecture of the building, which is an old mansion, I believe.
Kim Cox: And it’s really, it’s really beautiful. But yeah, it’s, that’s… It’s very well done, too, in that you start at the bottom, and it’s kind of cool when you go in. There’s just all these different signs.
Kim Cox: Yeah. Yeah, the entrance is cool, I think. I like it.
Kim Cox: Yeah, all these different sort of, kinds of signs that you’d see on the streets of Paris, and they put them in there. They’re old signs. And then you go through the museum. You can go downstairs where it has, like, almost down to prehistoric times, and see what the area was like at that time. And then you can just follow it chronologically as you go upstairs, all the way, past the French Revolution and into today.
Annie Sargent: The whole top level with the French Revolution was fascinating to me. But it goes beyond that. It goes to a little bit about France, Paris under the Occupation, and things like that, and the ’70s and I think it’s a beautiful museum if you have time.
Annie Sargent: And it’s free. Like, you know. So people who are on a budget, even young people… You know, sometimes when you’re younger, you’re going with kids,you have two or three kids in tow, you’re like, “Oh, that’s going to be a lot of money.” Well, this one, it’s not a lot of money. Sometimes it’s wise to book a time when you’re… So you need a free ticket to enter at times. Not always. Sometimes they let people just right in, so… But if you go in May, June, July…
Kim Cox: We just walked in that day.
Annie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it just depends. But sometimes there’s a line outside, sometimes there isn’t. It’s, you know… But it’s worth going. It’s right in the Marais, which also has many other very interesting museums. But this one is definitely a favorite of mine.
Annie: And the little cafe area. I don’t know if you sat in the cafe at all, but it’s very nice as well.
Kim Cox: We walked through the cafe. It was very nice.
Kim Cox: We were probably there a couple of hours actually. And then we came out, and just as you said, that area is booming. And that was probably one of the days that we stopped and had lunch at one of the cafes we just happened upon. And it was so much fun.
Kim Cox: Yeah.
Kim Cox: because that area is so lively.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
[00:29:10] Dining and Reservations in Paris
Annie Sargent: I think, because you’ve been to Paris many times you probably understand this, but people need to think about the fact that they don’t really need to plan every meal that they’re going to have in Paris.
Kim Cox: No. No, no, no, no. If you’re going to do something special, so for example, on Christmas Eve, we had reserved in advance, probably a month in advance even. The rest of the time, we made a couple reservations. But the most fun we had was just, there was a local café even by where we were staying that, you know, probably was, I mean, it’s nothing special, but it was just fun.
Kim Cox: We had dinner there a couple of nights, actually.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Becomes your cantine.
Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm.
Kim Cox: Yep. Yeah. And the people start to know you, and everyone’s very friendly, and we enjoyed it.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. When you made those reservations, how did you do it? Did you call them? Did you email them? Did you use an app?
Kim Cox: Oh, that was a little more complicated than it needed to be. I tried to do it online through the, I think, through The Fork, but for some reason, it wasn’t going through. I kept getting error messages. So I ended up having to call them. But that worked out well.
Kim Cox: You know, one morning here in the US I called, and it was, you know, in the evening there. So they took my credit card over the phone and had the reservation. But it worked beautifully. We got there. It was a beautiful meal, that was a big highlight. One of the things I would say about visiting during holidays, and I’m sure this would apply to Easter or any other big holiday as well, Paris is such a big city, there are always people there who are not celebrating your specific holiday, who are working.
Kim Cox: So we noticed that the people at the restaurant, they probably were not Christians, so they weren’t celebrating Christmas, but they, you know, they were working very hard and happy to… very friendly and happy to welcome us. .
Kim Cox: The drivers when we took… I think we took an Uber home and, you know, you would notice there, there are people who probably celebrate a different holiday at a different time.
Kim Cox: Sure. Sure.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, and for special occasions like a Christmas Eve dinner or a Christmas Day dinner or something, they would almost always take your credit card because they don’t want to have no-shows, you know. So they will… And some Michelin restaurants do this as well. You can’t reserve unless you agree to 50 bucks per person and then they’ll charge you however much you actually spent. But if you don’t show up, they’ll take the 50 bucks anyway, you know.
Kim Cox: Yeah, and I can understand that in this situation. I mean, there was one seating. It was clear. It was a four-course dinner. I’m sure they, you know, they want to make sure that they’re going to have the funds there. When we sat there, it was quite delightful. When we were sitting at a table and to our left was a family that was celebrating. They were speaking Spanish. And to our right was a family and they were speaking French. And then behind us was a group of Italians.
Kim Cox: And so by the end of the night, we were all wishing each other a Merry Christmas in our own language.
Annie Sargent: Wonderful. Wonderful. That’s great.
[00:32:20] Experiencing the Pantheon
Annie Sargent: You also enjoyed the Pantheon. Was it your first time at the Pantheon as well?
Kim Cox: It was my first time. It’s surprising I hadn’t been to the Pantheon because the very first time we went to Paris with… Gosh, it was probably, like, 30 years ago now. My husband and I actually stayed in that area. We stayed in the Latin Quarter in a little hotel by Cardinal Lemoine, the Cardinal Lemoine Metro stop right down there. And so we frequented that area, but we’d never gotten into the Pantheon.
Kim Cox: And I think probably because the weather was always good, we were always outside. And this time, it was like, “Okay, let’s do something inside.” And we went in.
Kim Cox: And it was really, really cool, the upstairs portion you can get like a little audio guide and listen to information about the artwork and so forth and that’s quite interesting. I did some of it and then sort of lost a little interest. But definitely, something that folks would enjoy. And then you go into the crypt area and there are maps everywhere, and if there’s a particular person you want to visit, you can. I was quite excited based on the podcast episode, I wanted tosee Josephine Baker.
Kim Cox: And did that, and some others. So yeah, it’s a pretty cool thing. It was sort of funny because we were laughing going, “Oh, here we are at a crypt at Christmastime.” But, it was kind of fun.
Annie: I like the Pantheon. I think it’s a wonderful place to visit. And of course since you were visiting in December, in Paris it rains a lot, especially this year it rained. Last year, I mean, it rained a lot. So you really need to plan things that you can do indoors.
Kim Cox: You do. You do. And then of course, we were right there, so we got to visit some of the places that we, we… Every time we go to Paris, we always go to the little square or the circle, that was just down from our hotel the first time. It’s the Place de la Contrescarpe.
Kim Cox: Oh, yes…. beautiful little plaza.
Kim Cox: It is. We always go down there and go to the café. It’s called Delma’s. And visit and remember. We always take a picture so that we have the same picture that we had, of course.
Annie: I love it. That’s great.
Kim Cox: We’re looking a little different than we did the first time.
Kim Cox: Well, you’ve aged a bit, but that’s okay. You haven’t aged since last time I saw you, so that’s good.
[00:34:44] Christmas Festivities in Paris
Kim Cox: You went to the Galerie Vivienne and the covered passages?
Kim Cox: We did. We spent some time doing that as well as going to the Galeries Lafayette and Printemps, to see the decorations.
Annie: Yeah, it’s very festive at Christmastime. It’s beautiful.
Kim Cox: They were very different. I would say the Galerie Lafayette, of course, inside has the beautiful tree in the middle that you can visit, and then Printemps, is the one, I think, that has the outside.
Annie: Yes, Printemps is all the windows shopping kind of thing. It’s beautiful.
Kim Cox: It is beautiful. And one of the things that they do that I thought was lovely is they have little steps that the children can get up on.
Kim Cox: And make sure that they can see as well, and that, that was lovely. They don’t really have much decoration inside, but there’s this outside. And then going to the covered passages was very fun because that was just so very different, and not anything I had done before. And again, something wonderful to do in the winter.
Annie: Yeah. And they’re pretty close. Galerie Vivienne is pretty close to the Printemps and Haussmann. Wonderful. All right.
[00:35:48] Late Night at the Louvre
Annie: So you went to the Louvre. Ah, but this time, you went late. Do tell.
Kim Cox: I would say this is a tip that would save everybody a lot of hassle. If you go to the Louvre, and we’ve been before, of course, but haven’t been in many, many years, so we thought it would be kind of fun to go, and we thought, “Well, maybe it won’t be as crowded this time of year.”
Kim Cox: So we made a reservation to go. They’re open late, I think, two nights a week. I know Friday night is one of them. I believe the other may be Wednesday.
Kim Cox: Oh, that would be new. Maybe, maybe.
Kim Cox: But they’re open late on Friday night. They’re open until nine o’clock. And so we made a reservation at 7:00, and we got there, and there was no one there. I mean, it was just… We walked up to the Mona Lisa, no line, nothing. We’re in the Grand Gallery taking pictures of each other and we can… You know, there’s not a million people in there. So it, it was wonderful. I would heartily suggest going at that time because it’s just so empty and wonderful.
Annie: Yeah.
Annie: I was just doing an itinerary consult with people who are just going to be in Paris three days, but they include Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So okay, this is what you do on Fridays, what you do on Saturdays, what you do on Sunday, you know, because they also wanted to walk my food tour.
Annie: And that’s lovely if you can walk it on Sunday morning because there’s actually an extra little outdoor market plus the whole shopping street, anyway. Paris is wonderful, but if you go at the right time, it’s even better.
Kim Cox: Definitely. This is our second time that we’ve gone in the evening like that. One time, we were there, and it was even in the summer,it was even in the summer because our whole family was there, and we went in the evening, it would’ve been in June. And it was not crowded at, even in June, at late at night like that. So, I would say it’s just the best. And the other thing is, you can go later like that on a Friday night, and let’s say you’re there till 8:30, nine o’clock, when you leave, you can still have dinner.
Kim Cox: Of course, yeah.
Kim Cox: Because the cafés will be open. And I know that’s what we did. We went back to the 15th near our apartment, and just went into the café and had a, for us, a little bit of a later dinner.
Kim Cox: But it was packed.
Annie: Yeah, people are out.
Kim Cox: Right, right. So don’t think that, you know, you have to eat at five o’clock or something if you do that.
Annie: Yeah, that would be a bit early, wouldn’t it?
Kim Cox: Absolutely.
[00:38:19] Winter Travel Tips for Paris
Annie: So overall, what sort of trip was this? Did you learn anything? You have recommendation, things that you want to point out to people that you learned that you wish to share?
Kim Cox: I would say, winter is the perfect time to go to France because it’s not as crowded. I mean, Paris doesn’t get that cold really, I don’t think, normally. And I don’t think it usually snows, it might be in the 40s, it might rain.
Annie: Yeah, rain, yeah.
Kim Cox: It might rain. But as long as you’re prepared for it and you have the correct clothing, you’re not going to… It’s not, you know, you’re not going to Iceland.
Annie: No, no.
Kim Cox: And there’s still plenty to do. So I would say Paris is a good time to go. This time, because we stayed in a not-so-touristy area, we really did feel like we were getting to be a little bit part of the community for a week.
Kim Cox: And because it wasn’t so touristy, I think the local merchants and so forth spend more time… That’s the other thing I would say. I think everyone… I put this in my report too. We all need to stop people when they say the French are rude. I know sometimes when people say things like that, I just kind of let it go because I think, “Oh, you have no idea.” But you need to be proactive and just say, “You know what? That is just not true.”
Kim Cox: Because people are people everywhere in the world, and there are people who are rude and there are people who are lovely. But as long as you treat people with kindness and respect, I think most people want to help you and are very, very pleasant. We made some friends on this trip, so I, I would say…
Annie: That’s great.
Kim Cox: Yeah. It’s great just to take the time to talk to people and meet them. Every time I would try my little bit of French, they would ask if I’d like them to speak English. And so, it was…
Annie: That’s all right. Don’t take it personally.
Annie: Something you didn’t like very much, you didn’t love the boat tour in Strasbourg. That’s funny because I really enjoyed it. But see, it’s just a personal, like, perhaps I was in the mood for a boat tour that day. Who knows?
Kim Cox: You were tired maybe. You needed the rest.
Annie: Well, yeah. Yeah. You can just sit there and like… and then you mentioned that La Defense Christmas market is really nothing special. I would have to agree. It’s a shopping thing.
Kim Cox: Yeah. it’s really, it’s not… I don’t think it’s worth the time. My husband made a comment, it was unfortunate, I guess it was unfair maybe to the Paris Christmas markets that we had been to Strasbourg first.
Kim Cox: Yes.
Kim Cox: Because my husband, the way he described it was that the Strasbourg Christmas markets were just the best, just beautiful, well done, just what you would imagine. And then he said, “Well, Paris, they’re just too busy being Paris.”
Annie: Just don’t tell them. Don’t tell them that there’s other towns that can do it better than them. They will get annoyed.
Kim Cox: But yeah, I would say,the Christmas markets in general in Paris were not as… Of course they’re not as good. I mean, they’re… But the La Defense one is very commercial.
Kim Cox: Maybe if you’re a young person and you’re looking for kind of an evening out, that maybe is, you know, has loud music and maybe a little more rowdy, might be fun.
Annie: Yeah.
[00:41:38] Final Thoughts and Future Plans
Annie: So it sounds like you had a relaxing trip to France. I mean, sounds like you really enjoyed yourselves and didn’t stress out about anything.
Kim Cox: No, not at all. Just kind of let, let it go. The only thing I was stressed out about were getting those Notre Dame tickets. But after that I was good. And yeah, it was very, very fun and I can’t wait to go back. The thing I learned most I think was that no matter how many times I go back, there’s still 100 things I want to do.
Annie: Paris is endless. You can live there and not see everything. Or you want to go back, or you just like, “Oh, that was fun. I want to do that again and again and again,” you know?
Kim Cox: Well, like, for example, even in Notre Dame itself, and I’m excited the next time I go you’ll have your VoiceMap tour, your new tour, and I would like to take that. But one of the things you can do on the app, and I wish I had done this, but I’ll do this the next time, when you have the Notre Dame app, you can go on there and you can look at all… they give you a little bit of history of each of the pieces of art in there.
Annie: Nice.
Kim Cox: And that’s one thing I’d like to do next time. Next time I’ll go and maybe I’ll do a little research and look at the artwork, and as I walk around have a greater appreciation for what each piece is.
Annie: Oh, that’s cool. I hadn’t noticed that they do that. That’s great that it’s included in the Notre Dame app. That’s really cool.
Kim Cox: It’s right on there, so.
Annie: Fantastic. Well, Kim, you are a delight to talk to. I always enjoy spending time with you. Thank you very much for sharing your trip. And well, come back.
Kim Cox: Definitely. We’re already starting to make plans. And I can’t wait. And I’ll look forward to hearing your new VoiceMap app. And as always, it’s wonderful to hear your voice.
Kim Cox: So thank you so much and hope everyone gets to see Notre Dame very, very soon. And it is an absolute treat.
Annie: Thank you so much. Merci, Kim. Au revoir.
Kim Cox: Merci. Au revoir.
[00:43:33] Thank you Patrons
Annie: Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving back and supporting the show. Patrons get several exclusive rewards for doing that. You can see them at patreon.com/joinus And a special shout-out this week to my new Join Us in France champions, K. Hope, Heather Addison, Robin, Cathy Georgopoulos, Shirley Cheng, Jennifer Jerzyk, Lisa Woods Yarnell, and Julie Lynch.
Annie: And thank you Beth Murphy and Chuba for editing your pledge up.
Annie: Would you join them too? You can do it for as little as $3 a month, but if you can afford it, I’d love to have you pledge more so you have access to more rewards. Go to patreon.com/joinus.
Annie: And to support Elyse, go to patreon.com/elyseart.
Annie: Patrons, our next Zoom calls are taking place next weekend, June 21st and 22nd of 2025.
Annie: It’s been a long time since we chatted because I’ve been mostly away from my computer, like I mentioned before. More on that in a second.
[00:44:42] VoiceMap Reviews
Annie: Let me read you some reviews of my VoiceMap tours this week. “This is my second VoiceMap in Paris from Annie Sargent. She is thorough and educational. I highly recommend this tour if you want in-depth info about the Eiffel Tower.”
Annie: About my Montmartre tour, “Amazing. The instructions for directions were very clear and easy to follow. The history was narrated very structuredly. I recommend wholeheartedly.”
Annie: About my Saint-Germain-des-Prés tour, “I listened to this tour in preparation for a recent trip to Paris. Annie is engaging and entertaining host. I really enjoyed the historical warm-up she provides. The tour is well done and informative, but not overwhelming. It was the perfect preparation for visiting these sites in person.VoiceMap is like taking a private tour with a human guide who lets you stop whenever you want, picks up again at your leisure, or even goes to a different point on the map.” You cannot do that with a live guide, okay? Podcast listeners get a big discount for buying these tours from my website, and it’s better for me as well because I get to keep more of the money that you pay instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
Annie: But if you buy it from me, it’s a manual process, it’s going to take minimum 24 hours, sometimes a little bit longer.
Annie: To use your code, open VoiceMap, tap Tour Codes at the bottom right, enter the code, and download the tour. You don’t have to use your tour credit immediately. It just sits in your account until you’re ready. Want to use it on a different device? Just log into your account. You can listen in virtual playback from anywhere in the world. Perfect if Paris is not in your immediate plans. Take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
Annie: And if you’re planning a trip to France and want expert help, you can hire me as your itinerary consultant. It’s a busy season. Book early at joinusinfrance.com/boutique and I will enjoy chatting with you about your trip.
[00:46:42] Solar Energy Project in Paris
Annie: Let’s talk about a big solar energy project happening right in the heart of Paris.
Annie: The Canopée des Halles, that modern glass and steel structure you see when you visit Les Halles, where one of my VoiceMap tours is, it’s about to get a major eco upgrade.
Annie: By January 2026, they’ll be installing 1,200 solar panels on its roof. These panels will cover 2,200 square meters. That’s a lot of surface dedicated to renewable energy in central Paris.
Annie: This project has been in the works for a while. In fact, when the Canopée was designed, they had already planned for solar panels to be added later. Now it’s finally happening, and it’s all part of Paris’s climate action plan.
Annie: The budget is 715,000 euros.
Annie: Dan Lert, who is in charge of ecological transition at Paris City Hall, explains that the panels are going on parts of the Canopée that are already opaque, exactly where the architect intended them to go. And here’s something interesting. About 20% of the solar energy produced will be used directly by the public buildings underneath the Canopée.
Annie: That includes places like the library and community spaces.
Annie: Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo says this will be the largest solar power station in central Paris and the most productive one in the city. Paris wants to reach 20% of locally produced renewable energy by 2050. Right now, it’s only 7%, so there’s a long way to go.
Annie: But with 1,502 hours of sunshine in Paris in 2024, solar is definitely part of the plan.
[00:48:33] 6 Weeks away from the desk
Annie: So let’s talk about my six weeks away from my desk. You know, the life of a podcaster involves a lot of time at a desk, usually. But the last six weeks, I did very little of that. First, there was the Boot Camp 2025.
Annie: That went great. Elyse and I got to hang out and explore the South West of France with wonderful listeners for nine days, and we saw some great stuff. Everybody had a lovely time, and I’ll publish an episode about that soon.
Annie: Then six days after that, it was time for my daughter’s wedding.
Annie: We are very lucky that many visitors came from my husband’s family in the US and many French family from my side of the family as well from all over France as well.
Annie: If one of your children has gotten married, you know it’s a busy, busy time. Thankfully, it all went wonderfully well. It was a happy celebration, and I’m delighted to have a new daughter, Melanie.
Annie: Now, French weddings are quite the affair, and my girls went all out, so it took all day. But it was fantastic. I won’t go into details here because it would take too long, but perhaps, we’ll talk about it on the Zoom call where I’ll have more time to chat, but it’s really an all-day thing.
Annie: Then a few days after the wedding, we went on a cruise to Norway.
Annie: That was my fault because I was turning 60 and I wanted to go on a cruise to celebrate. We went a couple of days ahead of time.
Annie: We spent a couple of days in Copenhagen before and another couple of days after the cruise. I had been to Copenhagen before but never for that long. What a cool city.
Annie: We took a VoiceMap tour to get familiar with the city, and it was a very good one. It was one, that included… It was themed around Hans Christian Andersen, the fairy tales writer, and I’m a geek, I love stories. So I really enjoyed that.
Annie: And we also took a canal cruise. What a beautiful canal they have in Copenhagen.
Annie: We also took the train across the bay to Malmo in Sweden, because most of my husband’s ancestors are from Sweden, so he wanted to see that.
Annie: And then there was the cruise proper that took us to Norway and some amazing fjords. I had never seen anything like it. I really, really loved it. We were on the MSC Euribia because I wanted to do a northern cruise, and that’s where there were cabins left.
Annie: It was a fine cruise, and I, like I said, I turned 60 on the cruise, which was extra special. Then today, my brother turned 65, and we had a great celebration at his house in the mountains. He and his wife throw the best parties, honestly. Several of his best childhood friends came, and it was fun to see them because my brother’s friends were kind of my friends as well.
Annie: I mean, we hang out a lot, and yeah, it was just lovely.
Annie: And tomorrow, I’m off to spend four days in the Basque Country just to go discover the Basque Country. My husband cannot come along because he has to work. Originally, Elyse was going to come along, but she had to cancel. She had a last minute problem.
Annie: So I’m going anyway because I need to see every corner of France, and I had blocked off the time and reserved the hotels and everything. So it’s happening, so I’m really glad about that.
Annie: So that’s my busy month. By comparison, spending time at my desk is very, very quiet, but it’s nice to have a lot of excitement sometimes, isn’t it?
Annie: But I do need to get out of here because I haven’t packed my bag, and it’s past 10:00 PM already. Where does the time go?
Annie: My thanks to podcast editors Anne and Christian Cotovan, who produced the transcripts.
Annie:
[00:52:15] Next Week on the Podcast
Annie: Next week on the podcast, we’re diving into an intoxicating journey through time as we explore the rich history of perfume in France.
Annie: From its ancient roots to the glamour of Chanel and Dior, join us as Elyse Rivin uncovers the fragrant tales that have shaped France’s national identity.
Annie: Don’t miss out on this aromatic adventure. And tune in for that episode. That’s a sure to leave a lasting impression. It was really, really cool actually, yeah? I have no interest in perfume, but she made it really, really interesting. She’s wonderful that way.
Annie: Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you join me next time so we can look around France together.
Annie: Au revoir.
[00:52:59] Copyright
Annie: The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted, and produced by Annie Sargent, and Copyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance. It is released under a Creative Commons attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives license.
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Episode PageCategories: Alsace and Lorraine, Paris