Table of Contents for this Episode
549 Slow Travel with Trains Cars and Buses with Stephen Nicholson (June 15)
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[00:00:15] Introduction and Trip Overview
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Annie Sargent: This is Join Us in France, episode 549, cinq cent quarante-neuf.
Annie Sargent: Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France.
[00:00:31] Today on the podcast
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Annie Sargent: Today, I bring you a conversation with Stephen Nicholson about slow traveling through France by trains, cars, and buses. We discuss the nuances of traveling between quaint villages, tips for ensuring smooth transit experiences, and memorable highlights from Stephen’s 24-day journey.
Annie Sargent: Listen in for practical advice and captivating tales of French adventures.
[00:00:56] Podcast supporters
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Annie Sargent: This podcast runs on chocolatine, passable wifi, and the fabulous support of delightful humans like you. You book itinerary consults, stroll around Paris with me on the VoiceMap app, ride shotgun in my zippy electric car, brave the boot camp, or toss a few euros my way on Patreon. And I do a little happy dance every time.
Annie Sargent: Want to skip the ads and keep me caffeinated? There’s a link for that in the show notes or head to joinusinfrance.com/boutique and vive les podcast nerds!
Annie Sargent: And don’t forget to check out the website that goes with this podcast. That’s where you’ll find all the names and places we mentioned spelled out properly, links to hotels and restaurants, the full transcripts as well, and the transcript is super handy, it makes the podcast searchable. Maybe your memory is perfect, but mine isn’t, so I use it all the time.
Annie Sargent: You’ll find everything on the episode page at joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
[00:02:06] The Magazine segment
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Annie Sargent: For the magazine part of the podcast, after my chat with Stephen today, I’ll discuss whether or not we’re going towards a car-free Paris.
Annie Sargent: Some of us love that idea, some of us do not. Is it even realistic? I have some data to share that will shed some light on this question.
[00:02:37] Steven and Annie about ”Navigating France by Train, Car, and Bus”
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Annie: Bonjour, Steven Nicholson, and welcome to Join Us in France.
Steven: Bonjour, Annie. Thanks for having me.
Annie: Wonderful to talk to you. So you had a very nice leisurely trip to France. You balanced trains, cars, you stayed in small places. How long did you stay?
Steven: So we were in France for 24 days.
Annie: That’s very nice. And it was your first time in France, wasn’t it?
Steven: First extended trip. I was there for a few days in college, but that is a long time ago.
Annie: Yes, yes. So you jumped right in. 24 days for a first trip, that’s brave, isn’t it?
Steven: Well, my family’s from England and we typically go over there for three weeks at least, and we’ve taken trips to Italy and to Europe, and we like three weeks. It’s long enough, you fully utilized the cost of your airfare and get immersed in it. So that was something we were used to.
Annie: And it was just you and your wife on this trip, right?
Steven: Yeah, yeah. We’re retired now, so we have more flexibility to have longer trips.
Annie: Yeah, yeah. You’re young retirees. You don’t look like…
Steven: 67.
Annie: All right, you just look young. That’s great. All right, and your trip was around May 2024, right?
Steven: Yeah, it was mid-April to mid-May.
Annie: Okay. All right, very good.
[00:04:01] First Impressions and Travel Logistics
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Annie: So, you took a train directly from CDG to Avignon. I’d like to hear about that experience. What was it like? Did it work out? Not? Tell me about that.
Steven: We arrived at the airport and I had budgeted three hours of time from arrival to catching the train, just to be on the safe side, and it took about an hour to get from the airplane to the train station. So we’ve had plenty of padding as far as time was concerned. We took the OuiGo, which is the lower-cost version, and that was for two reasons, one was the cost and one was also it just matched up better with the time that we wanted to leave the airport.
Steven: Now, we bought the supplement to the ticket. The prices are low. You can pay the lower price and not have a seat reservation. But since we were traveling together, I paid the extra nine euros for seat reservations.
Annie: Right.
Steven: And also, I wanted to make sure we were on the top level so we got a better view, even though we had a hard time staying awake.
Annie: Yes.
Steven: Now, the OuiGo does not have any catering on board, so we did buy some snacks to eat on the way, even though we’d had the chance to get a sandwich in the airport. But it was smooth.
Annie: Yeah. Finding the train was not difficult?
Steven: No, no, and you know, you need to show your ticket to get on the platform, I didn’t know that beforehand, but that seems to be standard for the high-speed trains. In the notes I mentioned thatI was a little worried about security of the luggage, but the fact that only ticketed passengers can get on and they’re going a long distance, it’s not like somebody getting on the RER from the airport to Paris and they just hop on and then get off the next stop.
Steven: So I don’t think people should have to worry about luggage.
Annie: Yeah. It’s really not an issue. On the RER, it is an issue because if you take the RER from the airport into the city and that train makes many stops along the way, you have several opportunities for some scumbag to hop in the train, grab somebody’s backpack or somebody’s suitcase, usually it’s the backpacks that they go for, and run out of the train. And the doors close and you’re stuck. This does not happen with the express trains between the airport and Gare du Nord. So if you’re going to do the RER, take the express one because it’s less likely to be a problem for you. All right.
Steven: We had originally talked about renting a car the entire time, but I definitely was glad I made the choice of taking the train just because it was so much easier and cost-effective as well, especially when you could use OuiGo.
Annie: Right, so you used all three kinds of… You used OuiGo,
Annie: you used-
Steven: Inoui.
Annie: … Inoui, which is the more expensive, and then you used something called Classic?
Steven: Yeah, OuiGo Classic.
Annie: OuiGo Classic, which we don’t have in the Southwest, so I’ve never taken that.
Steven: Yeah, that was in the latter part of the trip. And I can talk about that later.
Annie: Yeah, we can talk about that a little later. Okay. So generally, I recommend peopleschedule three hours between the time they land and the time they take the train. And it’s true that if all goes well, if your plane isn’t late, if the delivery of your suitcase… But you were traveling with carryon, right?
Steven: Yes.
Annie: Right. So you didn’t have to wait for delivery. But you know, if there are no delays at security, well, it’s passport control when you exit. Some days passport control takes a long time and sometimes it’s really quick, and there’s no way to plan that.
Steven: Yeah. I would still do three hours, even though I had a good experience this time. I was very lucky, so…
Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it doesn’t take much, you know, your plane’s delayed and whatever, and especially if you get the OuiGo tickets, they’re not refundable usually. So, you know, you’d have to buy brand new tickets, so yeah, take your time. All right.
[00:08:07] Exploring Avignon and Surroundings
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Annie: So then you made your way to Avignon.
Steven: Yeah. So you get to the TGV station, and then you take the local train into Avignon.
Annie: Right.
Steven: And we got an Airbnb very close to the train station, which was kind of a thing that we did throughout, so we didn’t have to walk very far.
Steven: And then we used the local trains during our four days in Avignon to go to Arles. So that was very seamless.
Steven: I bought the tickets the day of. We took the local bus to Saint-Rémy-de-Provence.
Annie: Right, a regional bus.
Steven: Yeah. And that was fine. You always wonder about where you buy tickets and how you deal with that. And it was pretty straightforward, at least there in Avignon.
Annie: Yeah, typically the bus station, the regional bus station is right by the train station. Most cities I’ve ever, I don’t remember this, I can’t think of an exception except for Paris because it’s giant, and there are fewer regional… But in the rest of France, the bus station, the regional bus station is right by the train station. And you just go there, buy a ticket, get on, for the most part, that’s how it works.
Steven: So it’s pretty seamless.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: Those were the two public transportations we used in Avignon.
[00:09:26] Navigating Car Rentals and Local Markets
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Steven: And then we went, we rented a car at the TGV station, so we took the train out to the TGV station and rented a car there.
Steven: One point that I was going to bring up was that I was looking for prices. And prices change on rental cars, there’s not one price all the time.
Steven: So I made a reservation fairly early, which I thought was a pretty good price. And then I went back and looked later, which is dangerous because you might see a lower price well… You might see a lower price and think, “Oh, I should have waited.”
Steven: It turns out though that most of the rental car operations will let you cancel your reservation. So if you see a good price, go ahead and do it. But don’t hesitate to look for a lower price in the future and then just cancel your old reservation and then make the new reservation. So…
Annie: I would do it the opposite direction. I would make the new reservation and cancel the old one. Right?
Steven: Well, that’s what, yeah, that’s what I did. I…
Annie: Okay. All right.
Steven: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, instead of waiting and thinking, “Oh, is it going to go down? Is it going to go down?” Just make the reservation. And then if it does go down, just cancel the old one and make the new one, right?
Annie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cars you can normally cancel.
Steven: I saved $100 just by doing that.
Annie: Very good. Yeah.
Annie: Yeah. So we stayed four days in an Airbnb just outside of the Luberon and just took trips, usually half-hour drive to various villages. The whole trip was kind of built around these, the Les Plus Beaux Village deFrance. Yes.
Steven: I looked for areas that had the highest concentration of those villages and Provence was one of them, and the Dordogne was another one. So I kind of used those as places I wanted to get to. And then I built the rest of the trip kind of around that so I could make the loop around France.
Annie: Right. And yeah, the Aveyron also has a high concentration, there’s a few areas like that that have quite a few.
Annie: Yeah. And that’s a good way to go. And in middle of April to middle of May, that’s where tourism starts up again. So these villages are not going to be completely dead, there’s going to be some, like the… the little pottery shop and the restaurants are going to be open.
Annie: Whereas if you go in January, we’re recording this in January, I can guarantee you it’s all going to be locked up. Nothing is open the rest of the year.
[00:11:53] Journey to Carcassonne and Toulouse
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Steven: We returned the car to the train station, the TGV train station, and this was our longest day of travel, so we took the train from Avignon TGV to Avignon Central, Avignon Central to Nîmes, and then that was a regional train, then we got a connection to an inter-city train to Carcassonne. We got off there, stored our luggage near the train station, and then we walked to the chateau, or the town.
Steven: And looked around there and then went back and got our luggage and then caught the regional train from Carcassonne to Toulouse.
Annie: So yeah, I want to, you know, break that down a little bit. So you arrived in Carcassonne and stored your luggage somewhere. Was this lockers in the city, in the train station or did you arrange for, like, Nanny Bags or something?
Steven: Yeah, I don’t remember the exact app. I had two apps on my phone for companies that show people who will store your luggage.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: And I found one that was close to the train station and they’re typically about five euros per bag.
Annie: Yep.
Steven: And you have to tell them approximately when, what time are you going to be there.
Annie: Which you know, because you’re going to arrive by train, so…
Steven: Right. I mean, they’re usually places that this is one of their many businesses.
Annie: Exactly.
Steven: They do laundry. They rent out Airbnbs and this is kind of a subset of their business.
Annie: Right. They probably also, like, if you pick up a package,or if you return a package, they will also do Amazon returns and they will do other returns for other companies. there are plenty of… Like, the one that does it near me is, it’s a little boutique thing that sells just local produce, locally made things, some cheeses, some wines. And they also do all sorts of other things on the side, so probably keep your bags,things like that. And it’s great because it makes your life easy. They probably don’t do this every day, but it’s very handy if you need that. I’ll put a link to Nanny Bag, it’s the one that I’ve been recommending, they seem to be, you know…
Annie: And most of these places, they will sign up with different ones, like their own Nanny Bag and their own whoever else does this. You know, it’s the same store just going through different aggregators is how it works.
[00:14:15] Favorite Things in the Luberon
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Annie: Let’s dial back a little bit to your time in the Luberon.
Steven: Okay.
Annie: Did you have a favorite thing you did in Avignon or the Luberon area? Was there something that stands out?
Steven: Well, another focus was to visit markets. And so, the market in Saint-Rémy was very nice. And just visiting the small villages, I just enjoy that. And especially that time of year because, as you said, there are things happening but it’s not super crowded.
Annie: Exactly. It’s not like the height of tourist season which would be probably July is, especially in Provence because of the lavender fields, that’s when everybody wants to go. So between middle of June to middle of July or late July even, it’s going to be mobbed. Seriously mobbed.
Steven: Yeah. So we saw probably six or seven little villages, some that were on the list, some that were not on the list. But-
Annie: Sure.
Steven: It was fun. Just find a car park and walk in, walk around, get a pastry.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: Enjoy yourself.
Annie: Yeah. So it’s interesting. You wrote in your notes that for the cities where you took the car, you picked ahead of time with Google Maps where you were going to park. Tell us a little bit about that.
Steven: Yeah. I just wanted to… I didn’t want to get to one of these villages and be wandering around and getting into parts of the village I wasn’t supposed to be.
Steven: So instead of saying I’m going to go to Roussillon, or I would look specifically on the map and find where the car parks were and I would go to the car park… Yes.
Steven: … directly.
Steven: Because each of the villages has one or a number of car parks and you’re going to have to park there. I’m not going to try to park anywhere else except the designated spots.
Annie: Right. And this is an excellent way to do this. Just instead of setting your GPS to, “I’m going to Roussillon,” for example, I happen to know that in Roussillon there is a parking area right close to where the Sentier des Ocres starts, where everybody goes, and you pay what? 10 bucks or something for the day. Nobody stays for the whole day. You know, you have cars coming and going all day, because they walk the Sentier and then head out.
Annie: There’s not that much you can do in Roussillon. But it’s very good to set your GPS to the parking spot, and this is true also in big cities. You know, don’t say, “I’m going to Toulouse.” No. Say, “I’m going to my parking, wherever I’m going to park.”
Annie: Most small villages that get a lot of visitors will be prepared so they have some signs, but you never know. Maybe the wind blew it off or something and you have no idea where to go and then you find yourself on these, in these crazy little medieval streets with a car and you’re like, “No, I don’t wanna be here.” You know?
Annie: So another thing is you mentioned that you used a parking application instead of cash to pay for your parking. How did that work out for you?
Steven: Yeah. It worked out fine. One nice thing was that you’d have this line of people at the meter trying to put their car information in, and I would just get onto my phone. I think it was PayByPhone was the app. In that particular area, I think they used one particular app…. and you already had your car information in the app, so you basically just said, “I’m here,” and, “How long do you want to stay for?” You’re not trying to figure out what buttons to push and, people behind you getting annoyed at you because you can’t read the thing correctly, and so…
Annie: Yep. That can be a problem because if there’s a long line… And I’ve even made mistakes. I used those horodateurs is what they’re called, the machines to pay for parking.
Annie: And sometimes you, especially if, when it comes to how long you’re going to stay, so you say, “Oh, I’m going to stay for plus, plus, plus, plus, plus,” and you see the price go up and up and up. And at a certain point, the price quadruples because you went an extra minute. And you’re like, “Oh, no, no, I don’t want to do that.”
Annie: And so you try and back up and you can’t and, oh, it’s like you have to start over again. So the apps are good, but the problem with the apps is that, different areas will have different apps, right? Did you, were you able to use yours in several towns?
Steven: Yes.
Annie: Ah, okay.
Steven: Yeah. So that was good. I didn’t need to, but if I decided I needed to stay an extra hour, you could do that on your app. You wouldn’t have to go back to the-
Annie: To the car.
Steven: … parking lot car. Yeah.
Annie: Excellent.
Steven: As long as you have reception, phone reception.
Annie: Right, you need data to do this. Very good.
[00:18:54] Wise Card
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Annie: You mentioned also using your credit card to fuel up and using the Wise card. This is not something that has come up a lot.
Steven: Yeah. Are you familiar with the Wise card at all?
Annie: I know what it is. I don’t have one, but I know what it is.
Steven: Okay.
Annie: But explain, please. There’s plenty of people who don’t know.
Steven: Yeah, so the Wise card is like a debit card, and you put money in your currency, so US dollars for me, and then you can convert it to euros, so it then has euros in your account.
Steven: It’s more seamless to use in various foreign countries, and also the exchange rate is much better, or it’s a good exchange rate that you’re guaranteed.
Steven: Now, what I had happen to me was I went to fuel up, and I don’t let the balance be too large on this debit card, just from a safety standpoint. And I was going to buy maybe 30 euros of fuel, so I had maybe 70 euros in my account. I put the card in, and it won’t accept it because they hold, like, 150 euros when they do it, even though you’re only going to buy 30 euros.
Annie: Right, because they don’t know how much you’re going to buy, so they just put a big hold on it, okay?
Steven: Yeah. So you’ll see that hold on your credit card. It’ll go away.
Steven: But temporarily, so… And then there was one case, the same, I think it was the same place, I was just trying to buy fuel. One of my credit cards didn’t work, so I tried the Wise card first, it didn’t have enough balance in it, then I used a regular American credit card. It didn’t work.
Steven: I was starting to panic because I had a train to catch, and then I tried the third, you know, the third option, and it finally did work.
Annie: Yeah, yeah.
Steven: But you do see that, you do see this thing come up on your credit card. If you look at your balance and you think, “Why did they charge me 150 euros?” And they’re not. It’s just a temporary thing, but it doesn’t just go away immediately. Sometimes it takes a day to go away.
Annie: Right.
Steven: They put that hold on there. So don’t panic.
Annie: Yeah, we have the exact same problem with EV car chargers. They also put a hold on, I don’t think they ever put on 150 because you couldn’t possibly spend that much with an EV, but whatever it is, it’s a big hold, some people are always like, “Oh, what is this?” It just goes away. They end up charging you whatever you did use and not the whole thing. Are you happy with your Wise card otherwise?
Steven: Yeah, yeah. It does allow you to take two ATM withdrawals per month, but that’s not huge, but then you don’t really need that much cash these days, so…
Annie: No, yeah.
Steven: … it’s not that much of a restriction.
Annie:
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[00:21:29] Carcassonne
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Annie: Okay, so now we’re back to Carcassonne. I’ve had somebody ask me once on an itinerary call, and so I’ll relate this so those who are listening know this, if you want to stop in Carcassonne for however many hours to visit on your way to Toulouse, for example, you just buy a train ticket to Carcassonne.
Annie: You can’t buy a ticket with a stop in Carcassonne. It doesn’t work that way. So just buy ticket to Carcassonne and buy another ticket, Carcassonne to Toulouse if that’s where you’re going to end up. For some reason, this person hadn’t, she had never thought of that.
Annie: And Carcassonne, the train station is not right by where the medieval citadel is, but it’s not very far. So you stored your luggage and then you hoofed it to the citadel?
Steven: Yes, I did. It was interesting because I followed Google Maps, and Google Maps led me onto this mud path. It had been raining that day, and it was, yeah, it was an experience.
Steven: I told my wife, ” Okay, Google Maps says to go this way,” and we go in there, and all of a sudden, we’ve got a inch of mud on our shoes, and I said, “Oh, I think this was a bad idea.”
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: So don’t always trust Google Maps. If it seems like it’s a bad idea, probably is a bad idea.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: Anyway, so yeah, we went to the Citadel. Now, because we had all that travel beforehand, we got there in the afternoon, and I think it may have been a weekend, but it was very busy.
Annie: I think you said it was May 1st, actually. It was May Day.
Steven: It was the day before May Day.
Annie: Okay, it was the day before May Day. Oh, these are super busy weekends.
Steven: Yeah, I didn’t have the best experience at Carcassonne just because it was so busy. It just seemed… seemed very touristy to me.
Annie: Well, it is if you go on one of those long weekends . It really is, because you have visitors, but you also have all the French families that have been saying, “Oh, we’ll go to Carcassonne one of these days,” and they all go because they have a long weekend, so why not go on their long weekend? And it’s very, very busy.
Annie: So yeah. I would avoid Carcassonne, you know, the weekend around May 1st, the weekend around May 8th. Easter weekend, would also be very, very busy.The opposite thing is also true. If you go in the winter, if you go in January or February, well, you’re better off going on the weekend, because that’s when there will be a few people. If you go on a Monday morning in February, you’ll be the only one there. So it’s just…
Steven: Yeah.
Annie: … you know, timing makes a big difference.
Steven: It does, yeah.
Annie: All right. So, you enjoyed Carcassonne even though it was very busy.
Steven: Yeah. It’s beautiful, but it was very busy.
[00:24:12] Toulouse:Take Elyse’s VoiceMap tour!
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Annie: Yeah. And then you made your way to Toulouse for two nights, right?
Steven: Two nights in Toulouse, yeah. So, we took Elyse’s VoiceMap tour, which was excellent.
Annie: Oh, good. I think it’s great. You know, I’m always mentioning my own VoiceMap tours because, you know? But I think Elyse does a great job and I wish she would do more of them.
Steven: Yeah, I do, Also. It was very interesting being in Toulouse on May Day.
Annie: Yeah.
[00:24:38] Encountering a French Labor Day Parade
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Annie: Why?
Steven: Well, we go out and there are all these police officers with machine guns, and we think, “What is going on here?”
Steven: Are we going to be afraid for our life?” So we went and did the VoiceMap tour, and it was a nasty day that day. It was raining.
Annie: Ah.
Steven: So we got through most of the tour, and then we decided we were going to go back to the apartment. And we ran right into the march. They were marching in downtown.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: And so we’re thinking, “Okay, how do we even get across…” We had to go across the parade route, and all the people with their banners and…
Steven: It was just interesting to see their enthusiasm for that particular… It’s different than Labor Day in the United States.
[00:25:22] Labor Day in France vs US
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Annie: Very much so, yes. So, Labor Day in the United States, you’re going to have floats and fun and whatever.
Annie: In France, it’s a day when most of the syndicat. So it’s a day when unions, called syndicat in French, call people to demonstrate, and it’s usually not… I mean, they always have security.
Annie: They always have people with machine guns because that’s how they do this in France. But it’s usually not violent. I don’t remember there being any problems with the May 1st parade in Toulouse last year. it’s usually fine, but it can be a little bit startling.
Steven: Yeah, it was a little surprising at first. But, you know, by the time we got through the crowd and we were relaxed, it wasn’t scary or anything.
Annie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s just, it’s just very different. And in Paris, they have… So in Paris, if you go around The Louvre, not very far from The Louvre on Rue de Rivoli you have this big gold statue of Joan of Arc, and that’s where the extreme right wing people always meet up to do their demonstration. that has tended to be a bit more tense than the others. I would personally avoid that area. Not that there’s been big problems recently, but…
[00:26:46] Exploring Toulouse and Surrounding Areas
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Annie: So how did you like Toulouse, not on May Day, so on May 2nd? Were you there on May 2nd as well?
Steven: Well, we still saw a lot of it, and actually, I was very pleasantly surprised with Toulouse. I thought it was beautiful.
Annie: Mm-hmm.
Steven: I mean, just so different than a lot of the other larger places that we went into. We went to Bordeaux and Paris, of course, and they use stone as their building material, and Toulouse with the brick.
Annie: Mm-hmm.
Steven: So yeah. I would definitely recommend going to Toulouse.
Annie: Yeah. There’s very fun things to do. I mean, I wouldn’t spend two weeks or whatever, but for two or three nights, there’s plenty to do. Yeah.
Steven: Mm-hmm.
Annie: And then if you spend longer…… go to Carcassonne, go to Albi, go to Foix. You can have very nice day trips. We have a whole category on the website about day trips you can do from Toulouse. So, lots, plenty to do in here.
[00:27:45] Journey to Cahors and Car Rentals in France
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Annie: Then you went to, let’s see, ah, you took a train to Cahors?
Steven: Yeah. So that was interesting. Originally we were going to take the train, we were going to stay in Carcassonne for two nights, and then I decided to stay in Toulouse instead.
Annie: Good. Good decision.
Steven: And the ultimate goal was to get to the Dordogne, specifically Sarlat. There’s a train to Sarlat, but once you get there, you still need a car.
Annie: Yep.
Steven: So, we thought about getting a car in Bordeaux, but that’s almost a two-and-a-half-hour drive. So then I was searching for somewhere else to get a car. And Brive?
Annie: Brive-la-Gaillarde, yes.
Steven: Yeah. That’s a big enough place that they did have rental cars. So I needed to get there, but we were trying to limit how much we did in a day, so I was looking for somewhere between Toulouse and Brive that we could stop. And so, Cahors looked like a good place.
Annie: It is a nice place.
Steven: So we spent the night there, and I would recommend going there too. It was very pretty.
Steven: The old part of the city there, you know, there’s some houses that had been stuccoed, but it seems like a lot of people are taking the stucco off, and then you have the more original brick and timber construction. And so it’s very pretty.
Annie: Yeah, so you have half-timbered houses that, in the ’50s, they were noticing that they were degrading quickly, and so they said, “Well, let’s just stucco over all of that.”
Annie: And so you ended up with medieval houses covered with stucco.
Annie: And now that they have better products to protect the brick and the wood, they are, you know, most people are removing the stucco and you see bare brick and timber for the half-timbered kind of houses. Which makes the place look very nice. And Cahors has a lot of medieval kind of houses. They’re not all beautifully res- restored, but some are very, very nice, and Le Pont Valentré is very nice.
Annie: If you like wine, there’s plenty of wine to taste in Cahors. But you guys don’t drink, right?
Steven: Yeah. Right.
[00:30:02] France for Non-Foodies
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Annie: And how is that, not drinking in France?
Steven: Well, we don’t eat out a huge amount either. We tend to bring stuff in from the supermarkets or the markets and cook it in our Airbnb. We do eat out lunch sometimes, so it’s not like we’re out all the time and worrying about looking odd because we’re not getting any wine.
Annie: Yeah. Nobody cares, I mean, honestly, I was out at lunch today with my husband, cute little restaurant, in a small village near us, full of people. I think one table had wine on it. Everybody else was drinking water, soda, you know.
Annie: French people drink less and less wine, especially at lunch, now anymore, it’s unusual. Oh, there was some people drinking a beer. Yeah, there was some guys drinking a beer.
Steven: I will drink beer.
Annie: Yeah, I’m like, “Oh, maybe I’ll drink a beer. No, I don’t want a beer.” So I just… But yeah, so that, that happens too.
[00:31:00] Renting a Car in Brive-la-Gaillarde
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Steven: Yeah. So we left the next morning to go to Brive and rent the car, which was interesting because there wasn’t a rental counter in the train station. They must have some arrangement where the rental agent brings the information, leaves it at the train information counter.
Steven: So we went there and the person that wasn’t a employee of the rental car agency, and we got our key and the documentation, and then the car was parked in the parking lot at the train station.
Steven: But that did require us sending our license and our passport to the rental agency.
Annie: Ahead of time.
Steven: Yeah. They sent me a WhatsApp message saying, “Can you provide this information for us?” Which, again, I didn’t expect that. But it worked out fine. Took pictures of our documents and told them when we were going to be there and rented the car and brought it back and handed it back in. So it worked.
Annie: Yeah, yeah. I mean, Brive-la-Gaillarde is not a touristy place at all. So, it might have been a better idea to rent from Cahors, because Cahors gets more visitors. But I have never tried to rent a car in either town, so I don’t know. If I had advised you, I would have told you to rent a car in Toulouse and drop it off in Bordeaux probably. That would have been my advice, because you save yourself a lot of… There’s a lot more choice for car rentals in big cities like Bordeaux and Toulouse.
Steven: Yeah, there was only one particular brand. There weren’t more than one.
Annie: And one thing that you ran into as well is that French supermarkets rent cars and vans, but these are for people who live in France. I have never heard of anybody who doesn’t have a French address, a French electrical bill, or water bill, or something proof of residency, to be able to rent a vehicle from Leclerc, or Auchan, or Carrefour, or places like that.
Annie: But French people, French residents can rent. I mean,several times I’ve rented moving vans from them. If you’re moving a big, big piece of furniture, it’s like the U-Haul, you know, like that sort of thing. Except that it’s always attached to a big grocery store. And they also have smaller cars, but I don’t think they would rent them to people who were not residents in France. For people who are not residents, you have to go through Hertz, or Sixt, or Avis, or you know, one of the big ones like that. And Sixt is quite big in France. I don’t… I’m not sure if they are very big in the US, but…
Steven: They are not. I did not use them just because I wasn’t familiar with them. I used Hertz and Avis.
Annie: Right. Right. But that’s fine.
[00:33:54] Adventures in the Dordogne
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Annie: So, then you spent some… A few days in the Dordogne.
Steven: Yeah. So it was a pleasant drive from the train station to Sarlat. And we specifically arranged that we’d be there on a Saturday, which is big market day, and our Airbnb was right along the main thoroughfare in the old part of the city. That was nice, just walking out the door, wandering through the market, buying some foie gras and some baguettes and some goat cheese, and taking it back and having it for lunch.
Annie: Yep.
Steven: And thenwe did a couple of day trips to, well, actually from the train station, rather than going straight to the Airbnb, which we couldn’t get into, we visited Rocamadour and Martel, which are both on that list of most beautiful villages.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: And then one of the other days we went to Domme and La Roque Gajac?
Steven: And then another day we went to the Chateau Millandes. Milland?
Annie: Yeah. Chateau de Millande with Josephine Baker.
Steven: Right. And they also have a raptor show, which was really-
Annie: Yeah. I love the bird show. Yeah, the bird show is great.
Steven: Yeah, the bird show.
Annie: It’s great.
Steven: And the Chateau Beynac?
Annie: Yes, the Chateau de Beynac. Beautiful.
Steven: Yeah, I love that. I like medieval history.
Steven: So yeah, we spent four days in Sarlat and then returned the car and took the regional train into Bordeaux.
Annie: So you returned the car in Brive, same place you picked it up? Yep.
Steven: Yes, same place. Yep.
Annie: And then took the regional train to Bordeaux, which is easy-peasy.
Steven: Yep. Got an Airbnb by the train station again, and then used the trams to get into the main part of the city. We did a walking tour, audio walking tour there as well.
Annie: Was it a VoiceMap or somebody else?
Steven: It was a VoiceMap, but it wasn’t-
Annie: One of us. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven: Yeah. Why don’t…? You need to do a one for Bordeaux.
Annie: Yeah. Was it okay, though? Was it interesting?
Steven: It was okay, but it wasn’t as good as you and Elyse.
Annie: Yeah. We put in a lot of time to our VoiceMap tours and other people, they just, “Mm, let’s just do something.”
Steven: Yeah. Yeah. So Bordeaux was very different than Toulouse, but still nice.
Annie: Yes.
Steven: Very nice.
Annie: Yeah. Bordeaux is a beautiful town. It’s just, the feeling is very different, you know? It’s just not… It had more English for a long time. We didn’t have that in Toulouse.
Steven: Yeah. I guess it was also a lot of the old parts were torn down and then kind of rebuilt in this style. So that was good. We did go to the wine museum because we don’t like wine, but…
Annie: Right. That’s a good reason not to go. I mean, honestly. If you don’t like wine, why?
Steven: Yeah. We had thought of originally skipping Bordeaux and just going directly to Tours. But I thought, ah, it’d be nice to see something different. And there was… it wasn’t very easy to get, it was easier to go to Bordeaux, spend the night. Again, make it more relaxing. I didn’t want to have a six-hour day of changing trains. So that was…
Annie: Yes, yes. Brive to Tours would be complicated.
Steven: Yeah.
Annie: I’m sure you can do it if you are bent on not having a good day.
Steven: Yeah.
Annie: Yeah, much easier to go to Bordeaux and then directly.
Steven: Yeah. And then we took the, this is our INOUI trip, and we decided to go first class because it wasn’t that much more expensive than second class when we bought the tickets. So we splurged.
Annie: So is now a good time to tell me the differences between all these types of trains? Is it worth the extra money, or we are same?
Steven: I mean, if I had the option of saving money, I would take advantage of it. But that’s just me.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: I mean, it’s not like… You might… Some people might think, “Oh, I don’t want to ride with the riffraff in the lower cost.”
Annie: Is it really riffraff, though, or was it just regular people?
Steven: No, it’s not.
Annie: Yeah, no.
Steven: It’s just regular people. I would have no problem doing that. It was fun going in first class, I mean, if it’s not that much more expensive. But there are cases where the OuiGo can be significantly cheaper. And it’s not really that much different from my perspective.
Annie: If you travel light and you’re okay bringing your own drinks and food, then OuiGo is just fine. Now, if you have more suitcases, bigger… you know, if you have a big suitcase, whatever, it’s better to be in first class because you have more room and things like that. But you know, it…
Steven: Yeah. There are good options.
Annie: Exactly, it’s good to have options.
Steven: France has a great train system.
[00:38:42] Navigating the Loire Valley
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Annie: Yeah. So the last thing. We’ve been talking a long time, so we need to speed it up, but,you had some adventures in the Loire Valley. You did Loire Valley without a car?
Steven: Yeah.
Annie: We did a whole episode about that, it was Episode 432. How did that work out for you? From Tours, you went to Amboise, which is easy.
Steven: Yeah, that was easy. And you could see two chateaus there, we just went to the one, the one associated with Leonardo da Vinci.
Annie: Yeah, Clos Lucé.
Steven: Yeah. We went to Langeais?
Annie: Langeais yeah.
Steven: That was good.
Steven: The trains are less frequent, so you have to be patient in terms of it’s not like you can go and get back exactly when you want to. You may have to wait a little bit.
Annie: Yeah.
Steven: And then we had our trip to Chenonceau, which, again, it’s not as regular as Amboise. And the weekend we were in that area, in the Loire Valley, it was the Ascension Day/whatever the other holiday was this year. Victory in Euro- I don’t know. It… Was it Victory in Europe?
Annie: Yeah. It was May 8th and… Yeah, it was around May 8th, yep.
Annie: It’s a long weekend.
Steven: So I bought tickets for Chenonceau, and I thought, “Oh, I’ll just buy the train tickets the day before,” and I went to buy them.
Annie: Hmm, not that week.
Steven: Not that week.
Annie: Nope.
Steven: So it was sold out even though it was a regional train. And so what we ended up doing was finding a train to the village just before Chenonceau, and having to walk five miles, to get to Chenonceau. We’d already committed to buying the tickets, and so we toughed it out.
Annie: Yeah, yeah.
Steven: But the word to the wise is don’t always assume that the regional train will have room.
Annie: Those weekends are very, very busy. I’ve said this a million times, but if it’s Easter, May 1st, May 8th, watch out. All the French people are out, and they will book everything. Like, everything.
Steven: Right. So it worked out okay, but it could have been… I was panicking there for a little while.
Annie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:40:53] Should You Worry About French People Not Liking Americans?
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Annie: So, what did you learn about France on this trip? Overall, was it a good experience? Tell me more.
Steven: Yeah. My wife was a little hesitant at first. Americans think the French don’t like Americans. And so my wife was hesitant about the trip from that perspective.
Steven: But we’ve taken trips to many other countries, so this was not our first time traveling. So we have experience around the world, and my wife said this was the best trip that we’ve been on.
Steven: So it was a combination of the food, even though we didn’t eat out a lot, just the food in general that we’ve bought in markets, the pastries, the friendliness of the people, especially going into the shop, making sure you say, “Bonjour,” and, you know, that goes a long way, and people are very nice. So as a consequence, we are coming back again this year.
Annie: Wonderful.
Steven: Yeah. So we’re going to spend another three weeks. So, obviously we had a great time, and we’re going to spend a lot of the time down in your direction in Albi and in Narbonne.
Annie: Oh, nice.
Annie:
Annie: Yeah
Annie: Nice. There’s an episode coming about Béziers that you want to hear, that no one has listened to.
Steven: Okay. Yeah. We planned on going there. Yeah. So that’d be great. Yeah.
Annie: Wonderful.
Annie: And you don’t even speak very good Fr- I mean, you can pronounce French, so you probably speak a little bit?
Steven: Yeah. I’ve used Duolingo and I’m using Babbel this time to try to learn it. I can read it well. I can speak it okay. I have the hardest time understanding people speaking.
Annie: Right. Right. But even if you’re not very good at French, people are friendly to you, right? I mean, it’s…
Steven: Oh yeah, yeah. We only had a few cases where they couldn’t speak some English.
Steven: But even then, I knew enough French that I could communicate. I could say, “Je parle un peu français,” you know, so…
Annie: Perfect. Very good. Well, Steven, thank you so much for talking to me about your trip. You shared some very interesting stuff, a lot of warning to people to do this, do that, don’t do that. So that’s very helpful for future travelers. Thank you so much and I wish you another wonderful trip in France.
Steven: Okay. Thank you.
Annie: Merci beaucoup. Au revoir.
Steven: Au revoir.
[00:43:21] Thank you Patrons
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Annie Sargent: Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving back and supporting the show. Patrons get several exclusive rewards for doing that. You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
Annie Sargent: A special shout-out this week to my new Join Us in France champions, Jude and Liz G. And thank you, Sheree Noel, for updating your pledge up to Groupie du Podcast.
Annie Sargent: Would you join them too? You can do it for as little as $3 a month, but if you can afford it, I would love to have you pledge more so you can have access to more rewards.
Annie Sargent: Go to patreon.com/joinus. And to support Elyse, go to patreon.com/elysart.
Annie Sargent: I’m recording ahead this week, so I don’t have any new VoiceMap reviews to share. But if you’re curious about what listeners think of my VoiceMap tours, head over to joinusinfrance.com/vmr. That stands for VoiceMap reviews. You’ll find lots of feedback from fellow travelers who’ve walked the streets of Paris with me in their ear. Maybe your review will be the next one I read.
[00:44:36] Discounts for Podcast Listeners
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Annie Sargent: Podcast listeners get a big discount for buying these tours from my website. It’s best for me as well, because I get to keep more of what you pay instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
Annie Sargent: But if you buy from my boutique, it’s a manual process, so don’t expect it to be instant like it would be if you were buying directly from the app. But most of you listening to me right now plan their trips at least a few days, weeks, or months in advance, so you probably have plenty of time.
Annie Sargent: To use your tour code, open VoiceMap, tap on tour codes at the bottom right, enter the code, and download the tour.
Annie Sargent: You own it forever, even if you change phones, just log into your VoiceMap account to access it again. The tours work without data because the audio images and maps are downloaded to your phone, and GPS works anywhere, even without cell service.
Annie Sargent: Best of all, you can listen in virtual playback from anywhere in the world. Perfect if Paris is not in your immediate plans. So yes, take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
Annie Sargent: If you’re planning a trip to France and want expert help, you can hire me as your itinerary consultant. It’s busy season, so book early at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Annie Sargent: Usually, I have openings within a month, but right now it’s more like two or three months out, so don’t wait.
[00:45:57] Car-Free Paris?
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Annie Sargent: Let’s talk about something that comes up often in France and especially in Paris. Are Parisians ready to give up cars in the city? This debate gets a lot of attention, and I want to give you the latest on what’s happening and how it ties into France’s push towards greener transport.
Annie Sargent: So back in March 2024, Parisians were asked a pretty direct question during a public consultation. The city wanted to know, are you in favor of turning 500 more streets into green pedestrian-friendly zones across all neighborhoods of Paris? And guess what? 66% of the people who voted said yes. But here’s the thing.
Annie Sargent: The voter turnout was very low, less than 4% of registered voters actually went to the polls. Still, the city is moving ahead, and this will mean that about 100,000 parking spots will be removed from Paris. That’s a big shift. This isn’t just about one vote in Paris, though.
Annie Sargent: Nationwide, things are changing too. The ADEME, that’s France’s Agency for Ecological Transition, published a study in September 2024. Now, ADEME, I should say, is the government agency that works on all things related to sustainability, from energy efficiency to clean transport.
Annie Sargent: They’re also a key player in the electrification of transport in France. They help fund and guide projects for electric vehicles, charging stations, and more eco-friendly urban planning.
Annie Sargent: Anyway, their study asked people in French cities with more than 100,000 residents what they think about sustainable transport measures, and the results were very telling.
Annie Sargent: 77% of people support more pedestrian zones, 65% are in favor of speed limits of 30 kilometers per hour, unless you’re behind the wheel, and then that’s awfully slow. And a huge 85% want more bike lanes.
Annie Sargent: That shows a strong shift in public opinion toward more sustainable mobility. People are more willing to accept changes that reduce pollution and noise.
Annie Sargent: Of course, not everyone agrees. Some elected officials and drivers’ rights groups still push back against these changes, worried about access and convenience. But overall, it’s clear that more and more people in France, not just Parisians, are open to rethinking how we use cars in cities and how we can move toward a cleaner, quieter, and greener future.
Annie Sargent: If you have noticed these changes in your travels in France or have thoughts about car-free city life, I’d love to hear from you, perhaps on Facebook, or perhaps as a patron.
Annie Sargent: My thanks to podcast editors Anne and Christian Cotovan, who produced the transcripts.
[00:49:00] Next week on the podcast
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Annie Sargent: And get ready for an incredible journey on our next episode of Join Us in France. I’ll be chatting with Rowena Sjovall as she takes us through her adventurous hike along the Chemin du Puy and the Célé Valley.
Annie Sargent: These are all on the Camino, right? She shares memorable encounters, tackling rain-soaked trails, and breathtaking landscapes. You won’t want to miss her captivating story. We also talk about planning, perseverance, and the joy of exploring France on foot.
Annie Sargent: Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you join me next time, so we can look around France together. Au revoir!
[00:49:40] Copyright
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Annie: The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted, and produced by Annie Sargent, and Copyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance. It is released under a Creative Commons attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives license.