Table of Contents for this Episode
Categories: Active Vacations in France, Off the Beaten Track in France
[00:00:16] Introduction and Guest Welcome
Annie Sargent: This is Join Us in France, episode 578.
Annie Sargent: Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France.
[00:00:32] Today on the podcast
Annie Sargent: Today, I bring you a conversation with Olivier Andrieu about his life-changing 100-day walk along the Via Francigena from England to Rome.
Annie Sargent: Olivier quit his corporate job to embark on this historic pilgrimage, discovering hidden gems, World War I memorials, and the joy of slow travel.
Annie Sargent: Whether you’re a hiker, a history buff, or a dreamer, his story of adventure, self-discovery, and stunning landscapes will inspire you to lace up your boots and hit the trail.
[00:01:06] Podcast supporters
Annie Sargent: This podcast is fueled by chocolatine, coffee, and the generosity of listeners like you. You book itinerary consults, take my VoiceMap tours of Paris, hop in my electric car around the Southwest of France for a day trip with Annie, or chip in on Patreon, and I am so grateful for all of it.
Annie Sargent: Want to keep me going and skip the ads? There’s a link for that in the show notes.And you’ll find all my services at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
[00:01:37] Magazine segment
Annie Sargent: For the magazine part of the podcast, after my chat with Olivier, I’ll discuss an article in The New York Times titled ‘36 Hours in Toulouse, France‘ that many of you sent to me and asked me what I thought, so I’ll give you my honest opinion.
Annie Sargent: I’ll also tell you about the Christmas windows in Paris, which are still up for a couple of more weeks, and the work that goes into creating them. And a brief update about one year of the free flow toll on the A13 freeway between Paris and Caen.
Annie Sargent: If you want all the links and the full episode transcripts, go to joinusinfrance.com/episodes. And if you’d like a handy summary of the conversation with all the useful links, subscribe to the newsletter at joinusinfrance.com/newsletter, because it is the best way to stay in the loop.
[00:02:39] Via Francigena with Olivier Andrieu
Annie Sargent: Bonjour Olivier Andrieu, and welcome to Join Us in France.
Olivier Andrieu: Bonjour, Annie. Nice to be here today with you.
[00:02:46] The Bold Decision to Walk Across France
Annie Sargent: Yes. So we want to talk about something quite extraordinary that you did. You walked across France, and a lot of Italy as well, but we’re going to concentrate on the French part for obvious reasons. What made you decide to do this and leave your job and just start walking?
Olivier Andrieu: Well, you know, I have been an international sales director in big corporation for about 30 years. I was kind of getting bored and I was not learning so much anymore. Doing the Via Francigena was a fantastic challenge, and a perfect transition to another professional life. I also thought, “I’m healthy and fit, now is probably the perfect timing to do it.” You never know how you will be in one, five, ten years, and I did not want to wait till the retirement to go for it. So I can say that leaving a well paid job and go walking for three months is probably the boldest decision I have made in my life.
Annie Sargent: You actually didn’t just take a three months leave, you quit the job.
Olivier Andrieu: Yes, exactly, I quit my job. Yes.
Annie Sargent: Yes. And did you go back to work afterwards?
Olivier Andrieu: No, no, no, no, no, I’m in a kind of a transition mode right now, I’m looking at investing or… but doing probably something quite different.
Annie Sargent: Okay. Fantastic. Okay.
[00:04:02] Family Reactions and Support
Annie Sargent: So how did your family react to this? Like, were they okay with this plan, or… ?
Olivier Andrieu: Well, my kids and my… I remember very well, my kids and my sisters told me they were very happy for me, and they were even proud of me, that I’d made that decision. But I must say, initially, my wife was not really enthusiastic. However, once I started, and after I completed my trip, she agreed I had made the right decision.
Annie Sargent: Right. Yeah, it’s hard to argue with something that will make you fitter and healthier and happier, you know ?
[00:04:34] Preparing for the Journey
Annie Sargent: How did you prepare for this journey? How did you mentally, physically… Did you do a lot of training?
Olivier Andrieu: Mentally, I did not have to get ready. Actually, it was a mental relief to start my Via Francigena. And physically, not much. I had started to walk every weekend a couple of weeks before the great start. And I must say, the first stages of the Via Francigena are rather easy. The longer or difficult stage is only start after about 12 days, so your body has time to accommodate.
Annie Sargent: Right.
[00:05:08] Exploring the Via Francigena
Annie Sargent: So let’s talk about where you started from, and let’s define this Via Francigena a little better, because I’m sure a lot of people don’t really know what it is.
Olivier Andrieu: Well, actually, the Via Francigena is, uh, uh, uh, um… To- to explain a bit these two words, it is the first and most important road that in the Middle Age connectedthe countries beyond the western Alps called the Land of the Franks, it was before the French, it was the Franks, connecting them to Rome as a main destination.
Olivier Andrieu: And in 990,the Archbishop of Canterbury called Sigeric, he went walking to Rome to receive his pallium, his kind of clothes if you wish, from the Pope, and so he recorded his route and his stops on the journey. And so that’s why it’s called the Via Francigena, and we’re following the path of Sigeric.
Annie Sargent: Okay. So Sigeric. How do you spell that name? I don’t think I’m familiar with that name.
Olivier Andrieu: S-I-G-E-R-I-C.
Annie Sargent: Okay. All right. Yeah, clearly I don’t know enough about the Via Francigena that I never heard that name, you know?
Annie Sargent: I mean, St. James Way, everybody’s heard of that one, but that’s a different one.
Annie Sargent: So it goes from Canterbury.
Olivier Andrieu: Yes.
Annie Sargent: In England.
Olivier Andrieu: In England. So there are two stages in England. So as Canterbury is located south of England, you just have about 60 kilometers, 50-60 kilometers in England. And then you take a boat to Calais.
Olivier Andrieu: And from Calais you cross,you have a diagonal going from, so north, northern France to the Jura, to the Franche-Comté region, in the Besancon region, just to follow with Switzerland, then you cross the Alps, and you arrive in the Aosta Valley, then you do the, you cross five or six Italian regions to reach Rome.
Annie Sargent: Wow. That’s a long way. And how many days did it take you to complete this journey, the total thing?
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, about 100 days.
Annie Sargent: About 100 days? Wow. And so you walked approximately how many kilometers per day on average?
Olivier Andrieu: On average it’s 25 kilometers. The lowest would be around 15 kilometers, and the maximum would be around 35. But it, there is always a possibility to accommodate, to do it more, one day a bit less the next day, et cetera.
Olivier Andrieu: So, 25 is a fair average. And it’s a good number. Everyone agrees that below 20 sometimes you can get bored, because you do not have enough, and above 28, then it starts to be a bit difficult. So 25 is a good average.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. I think probably the pilgrims who walked this…… long ago, for religious reasons, and we should say you weren’t doing this for religious reason yourself, right. But the people who did it for religious reasons possibly walked around 25 kilometers per day but we have to understand that people in the Middle Ages walked everywhere they went, walking was normal, it’s not like they had a car they could hop into to do everyday life and then they would go on a pilgrimage where they decided to walk. Walking was the way to get around, and so they were familiar, their bodies were familiar with doing this sort of exercise day in and day out.
[00:08:30] Daily Routine and Experiences
Annie Sargent: One question, did you take days off? Did you make sure to stop at specific places because you wanted to visit those places?
Olivier Andrieu: Actually, I initially intended to take a day off about every seven days or so. And at the end of the day, I did not apply that kind of rule. I walked each and every day with one or two or three exceptions only. I stayed one day, I took a day off and that’s because my wife joined me in Italy, so we took a day off in Sienna to visit the city.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Olivier Andrieu: But I remember, I was walking with a lady, Kathleen, from Scotland, and there was a gentleman from Australia. And one day I remember in Lucca he said, “Hey guys, I’m going to stay to enjoy the city for a day and I’ll let you go, you can keep walking, and I’ll spend a day here.”
Olivier Andrieu: The same day he called us and he said, “Wow. I got bored. I mean, my life today is walking, so one day without walking, there’s something missing.” He was not in the spirit, you know, like holidays, he was not in the mood of really visiting.
Olivier Andrieu: So I cannot say that does not happen, that happens, and it’s, sometimes it’s cool but sometimes you find it weird to have a full day because you get used to wake up very early in the morning at 5:00 A.M. and then have a breakfast and then go walking. And if you don’t have to walk, maybe you will wake up at the same time and then you will say, “Okay, I had my cappuccino, now it’s 6:00 A.M., what am I going to do for the whole day?”
Annie Sargent: Oh, wow. Yeah, well, that makes sense because you get into this… it’s your new routine, walking every day is your new routine, so it becomes something different.
Olivier Andrieu: And there is a kind of excitement. It’s funny, sometimes when you end a stage, you arrive in a convent where they have a dormitory and you say, oh, again, we, maybe we’re five, we’re 10 of us and it’s super hot outside so you open the window, it’s a bit noisy, it’s extremely hot and there are 10 people in the same room, you don’t know anyone. Or after some time, you start knowing people, but then in the morning at 5:00, 6:00 A.M., you can feel an excitement, everyone is super excited to prepare his bag and, or her bag and to think about the day to come with the walk, with the landscape, with the people you meet, with the animals, et cetera. Every morning I could really feel an excitement.
Annie Sargent: I didn’t ask you the dates of this trip. When did you go?
Olivier Andrieu: I left, I started from England, end of March.
Annie Sargent: Of 2024?
Olivier Andrieu: Yes, or 2025, yes.
Annie Sargent: 2025. So end of March 2025. Wow. Did you mostly run into good weather or did you get rained on a lot?
Olivier Andrieu: No, I was extremely lucky with the weather, you know, starting in March in England and Northern France could have been a challenge, I think all in all, on the 100 days of walk from England to Rome, I had probably 5 to 10 days maximum of rain, and not heavy rain,it could be showers andlight rain, so it was, yeah, I was super lucky and it can make a big difference.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. Is the way well-marked? Is it as well marked as the Camino or are there as many places for you to stop and sleep and things like that as the Camino?
Olivier Andrieu: Yes. Absolutely. The path is well physically marked, on signage and there are many Via Francigena signage that also explain you about the history, about the monuments, about the region that you are crossing, so that’s interesting.But you also have the Via Francigena app, that helps you make sure you are on the right path and it gives you addresses of accommodations to stay at. And there are also several famous books about the Via Francigena. If you do not want to carry your bag,a logistic service can be organized, so yes, it’s… you cannot get lost. You can get lost for a couple of kilometers but then you said, “Oh, I was too confident, I went straight and I had to turn right and it was written and it was, it’s just my mistake.” So, you will never get fully lost.
Annie Sargent: Right. Right. France is a country that’s full of little villages and hamlets and things like that, and so you don’t ever really go very long without running into some habitations anyway, right?
Olivier Andrieu: Absolutely. Yeah.
Annie Sargent: I mean, every few kilometers you will see something. I mean, I lived in the west of the United States where you can truly go a hundred miles without anyone, there’s nobody there. It’s empty. That does not happen in France.
Olivier Andrieu: Not on the Via Francigena. No, absolutely not.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.
[00:13:12] Historical Discoveries and Reflections
Annie Sargent: We should say also that you are French and you live in France full-time. You didn’t set out to discover France, did you? It wasn’t about discovering France, it… Or was it? I’m not sure.
Olivier Andrieu: Well, you know, I live in northern France, so the Camino is just two kilometers away from my home. And I can tell you that I discovered just on the two kilometers away, there is a church in a small village called Ecouen.
Olivier Andrieu: And thanks to the Via Francigena, I discovered the history of a young soldier from World War I, because he wrote his name, he engraved his name on the chalk of the church.
Olivier Andrieu: And he was there I think it was in July 1916. He was 20 years old, and one month later, he was killed in the Somme Battle, just when he got, when he turned 20.
Olivier Andrieu: So, I’m living just two kilometers away from this and I never heard about that story. So I saw his name engraved in the stone of the church. So although the Camino goes in places which are very close to my place, I learnt a lot about, I learnt or I remembered about historical things.
Olivier Andrieu: For example, like the statue of Rodin in Calais. I had seen that probably 25 years ago. And when I did that Via Francigena, I stayed for about half an hour watching the details, reading the history of the Burghers of Calais, and about that statue and so on.
Olivier Andrieu: I learnt about some convents which are just an hour drive, one hour drive from my home, that I had never seen before. And you get there and you meet with Sister Lucy, and she’s welcoming walkers or pilgrims from all over the world in her, in this abbey, and because you can stay there overnight when doing the pilgrimage.
Annie Sargent: Hmm. And it doesn’t matter that you’re not a religious pilgrim, they will welcome you all the same?
Olivier Andrieu: Oh, absolutely. Yes. They will always tell you, it’s kind of funny because,probably I would say 90% of the people who are walking the Via Francigena are not religious, not doing it on religious purpose.
Annie Sargent:
Olivier Andrieu: We were allhaving fun in the evening, because everywhere, when you would stay at a convent, or monastery, they would always tell you, “Oh, by the way, we have a Mass, we have at 6:00 PM or at 6:00 AM,” et cetera. And they were trying to have us participate, but very few walkers would do it.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. I know that in the Middle Ages, the places that were holiest that you could visit as a pilgrim were Rome, Jerusalem, Compostela, Santiago de Compostela, Rocamadour was another one.
Olivier Andrieu: Uh-huh.
Annie Sargent: And I’m missing one, I think. Anyway, so those were some of the holiest places, and people really walked to Rome just to pay homage to the saints and to the relics and all of that.
Annie Sargent: So this was a big part of life in the Middle Ages. Nowadays, it’s more of a journey of discovery. So you talked about some historical discoveries that you made along the way, but perhaps also some self-discovery. I suppose you, when you’re with your own thoughts when you walked, did you listen to music? Did you just, was it, did you prefer quiet? Did you like talking to the other people?
Olivier Andrieu: You know, I took my AirPods and I thought, “Oh, I’m going to listen to a lot of music, listen to podcasts and so on.” And I remember the first couple of days I was thinking, “Oh, no, I don’t want to miss sounds of the sea,on the sand. I don’t want to miss the song of the birds. I don’t want to miss the leaves, the wind in the trees.”
Olivier Andrieu: So all the sounds of nature, I was so scared to miss anything really, that I did not, I think I listened to one podcast, but when I was in an accommodation in the evening. During my walk, once or twice, I put some music when I was, when it was a bit tough. But most of the time, I did not use any music or any podcasts because I was enjoying really so much the nature. About talking to people, when you walk, you don’t walk so much with other people. I was so happy to see them in the evening arriving at the place where we would stay all together, in the convent, for example.
Olivier Andrieu: And it was, a funny thing is that I would arrive after the others, for example, and I would recognize the underwear and the clothes that were drying. I said, “Oh, my friends from Korea are here. My friends from Switzerland, from Scotland, from this and that or from those countries.” I could recognize that they had arrived, and so I was happy to meet them. We were happy to have a drink together, to have a dinner, to have a chat. But during the day, we were not really walking side by side.
Annie Sargent: That’s interesting. I think I would prefer that. I love walking with my dogs, and there are groups of walkers where I live, in the south of France. You hear them coming at a, like from a mile away, you hear this loud sound of these people chatting because sometimes there’s 20 or 30 of them, and I preferred to be in my own zone, you know? Either listening to a book or do nothing.
Olivier Andrieu: Exactly. And it’s not easy to find the same pace when you walk.Even if you’re just two persons, I can see when I walk just with my wife, it’s difficult to stay at the same level for five kilometers.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Olivier Andrieu: Suddenly, you find yourself a bit in advance or a bit behind.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Olivier Andrieu: And so, yeah.
(Mid-roll ad spot)
Olivier Andrieu:
[00:18:56] Challenges and Physical Demands
Olivier Andrieu: So you mentioned that the first few stages of this walk were fairly easy, fairly flat. But did it get more challenging physically as you went along?
Olivier Andrieu: Yes. When you reach the mountains, so the Franche-Comté, the Jura Region, then you start walking in the mountain, and so it’s a bit more challenging. But quite frankly, the landscape was so nice that you forget about it. And I think also, again, the weather plays a big role. A nice, sunny day in the mountain is an easy one, but if you walkunder the rain or under the heat in a flat area, it can be a lot more difficult.
Annie Sargent: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. You mentioned in the summary, you know, we chatted before we recorded this, and so in the summary you mentioned that you read some poetry, you liked Arthur Rimbaud. It feels to me like you were really in tune with nature at this moment.
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, correct. And about the Arthur Rimbaud, it’s funny, it was one of the very few boring stages. There was not so many, but a couple of them, so that was one of these few boring stages. And suddenly, I saw really a very nice chapel in the middle of the fields, and I went inside. First of all, I took a picture which was quite nice because just the painting and the simple architecture of the chapel was nice. And I went inside, and someone had a good idea to put a number of small poems on pieces of paper everywhere, and then you could grab them. And so I started to read a poem of Arthur Rimbaud called Sensation about, which is about walking in the nature.
Annie Sargent: Mm.
Olivier Andrieu: And I loved it, and I put it on my app, sharing it with my community the next day, and everyone said, “Wow, that’s so beautiful.”
Annie Sargent: Huh. Fantastic. I’m assuming that you had internet access everywhere you went, right? You never lost…
Olivier Andrieu: No. No, no. that was not an issue at all.
Annie Sargent: Right, right. And every place you slept at night, you could charge your phone, and…
Olivier Andrieu: Exactly. Yeah, no issue at all on this. Absolutely not. Yeah.
Annie Sargent: How far ahead did you book these places where you were going to stay? Did you do it like from one day to the next or is it busy enough that you have to do it early?
Olivier Andrieu: No, usually, I was planning two to four days, let’s say, in advance.
Annie Sargent: Okay.
Olivier Andrieu: I think that’s long enough, and that’s also good that every day you do not have once you’re done… That you do not have to find an accommodation because then it becomes a challenge. So you, when you’re at your place, you know already where to go. The next day you know already as well. And so every day, after I did… I had my shower, wash my clothes and so on, I would spend a bit of time of checking what kind of accommodation I could find for the two-day plus three, four days.
Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm. And that worked out okay? You never had major problems with… Yeah.
Olivier Andrieu: Never. Some people would carry a tent with them, just in case, and you realize that they almost never use it. And I think the weight of a tent can be, I don’t know, two kilos, and it’s a lot. It’s too much if you’re going to use it only three times out of 100 nights. You can really rely on the accommodation which are on the way.
Annie Sargent: Right, and if you did run… imagine you hurt yourself, like, you take a bad step and you twist your ankle and you’re hurt and you can’t continue. What happens then?
Olivier Andrieu: Well, as we said, you can call anywhere, you can call for a doctor or something.
Olivier Andrieu: And also, I remember talking to my friend Kathleen, and she said, “Oh, I know that I’m always starting before you, and I know that if I twist my ankle, I know that you are behind me, maybe one or two hours behind me. So, you will find me on the way.”
Olivier Andrieu: So, you will always find someone to help you. And I saw also, one day was, one of those few rainy days, and I saw Susie from Norway, and she said, “Oh, it was- I was on walkingalong the road, and it was raining so much, and some car stopped to offer some help to say, ‘Hey, can I drop you somewhere?’ or ‘Can I help you?'” So, there is no really- there is no fear of being alone or having issues or safety.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you carried your own backpack, right? Even though, I mean, you stayed at inns every night, so you didn’t have a tent.
Olivier Andrieu: No. But I carried my pack, yes.
Annie Sargent: Yes.
Olivier Andrieu: And you know, I selected it very carefully. I started with my bag when it was brand new, and after just 10 days, it becomes part of you. And after maybe 20 days, I was writing a poem about it. I liked it so much.
[00:23:44] Packing Tips and Final Thoughts
Annie Sargent: So give us some tips. How do you pick a good bag, and how do you pack for a trip like this?
Olivier Andrieu: Well, the big mistake is to say, “Oh, I’m going to take that one which is…” I don’t remember the size, but which is, for example, 40 liters or 50 liters, let’s say. And you say, “Maybe I will not fill it with the 50 liters, but I have a bit of extra room in the bag.” And if you do that, probably you’re going to fill it anyway.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
[00:24:11] Packing Essentials for Long Walks
Olivier Andrieu: And then you will have two, three, four kilos that you do not really need. And two kilos on 25 kilometers times 100 days is a lot.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Olivier Andrieu: So really, I think they recommend to have something like 35 liters. You should stick to that. And if you cannot put anything more, that’s probably better.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
[00:24:32] Choosing the Right Footwear
Olivier Andrieu: So, and going for a very good quality. So for shoes, even for a T-shirt, you know, I would not recommend, and I did that, I did that mistake to take a couple of regular T-shirts made of cotton. And it’s heavier, and most important, it takes a lot more time to dry.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Olivier Andrieu: So you should always go for good high-quality clothes, bag, shoes, rather than regular ones I saw people who could do it with regular shoes. I was so scared of having blisters and having to twist my anklesand so on, that I went for very high shoes, top hiking quality shoes.
Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so stuff that goes up your ankle that supports your ankle a little bit.
Olivier Andrieu: Exactly.
Annie Sargent: In the middle of the summer, I would hesitate, like, because it’s going to get…it was hot. I mean, you left in March. Late March, you said?
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, in late March, and I arrived really first of July in Rome.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. By the first of July in Rome, it was probably hot, right?
Olivier Andrieu: It was. It was 38 degrees Celsius in the shade, so it was extremely hot. We would start in the morning at 5:00 AM. But still, until the end, I kept my hiking shoes because I have a weakness at my ankle, so I did not want to take any risk to jeopardize the end of the trip.
[00:25:49] Dealing with Blisters and Injuries
Annie Sargent: Did you get injured at all? Did you get blisters?
Olivier Andrieu: I got maybe one blister, which went away naturally very quickly. But every morning, so I remember two years back, so in 2024, I said, “I’m going to do three stages of the Via Francigena to see if I like it to walk.” And I meta lady, Theresa from California, and she gave me the tip of that cream, which is called Akileine Nok.
Olivier Andrieu: And she said, “Every morning, I apply it on my feet, and I do not have any blisters.” So I did that very carefully every single day, and it went absolutely fine. Because I saw people who had to stop a couple of days. I saw people who were really struggling, who were not enjoying the walking day because of blisters, and I didn’t want that to happen to me.
Annie Sargent: Right. Right. Akileine Nok?
Olivier Andrieu: Yes.
Annie Sargent: Can you spell that?
Olivier Andrieu: Akileine, A-K-I-L-E-I-N-E, and Nok is just N-O-K.
Annie Sargent: Okay. And is that like a lotion, a cream, a…
Olivier Andrieu: Kind of cream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s super-
Annie Sargent: Moisturizing.
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, exactly. Super efficient. Yes, absolutely.
Annie Sargent: Okay. Okay. Okay. Hmm. Interesting. Interesting.
[00:27:07] Daily Routines on the Walk
Annie Sargent: So I assume you washed some clothes every night when you got there and hung them up?
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, absolutely. It becomes, a first thing you do when you arrive, have your shower, and it’s a great moment. Then do your- wash your clothes. And it’s also a great moment because you know that the next day they will beso clean and smelling good again and…
Annie Sargent: Yes. Yes.
Olivier Andrieu: And then you relax a bit, and you have a look at what does the next stage of the next day look. For example, what kind of city am I going to cross? Is it a long one? Is it hilly and so on?
[00:27:41] Historical Discoveries Along the Way
Olivier Andrieu: And it’s good because I learnt a lot again about,talking aboutart or history. I crossed the city of Langres. Had never been in that city before. It’s the kind of city which is on the road which is nearby the highway that brings you people from Northern France or Paris to the French Riviera, and very few people are stopping in Langres, so because I was walking the Francigena, I had to do it, and I loved it.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, so it’s L- A- N- G- R- E.
Olivier Andrieu: S, yes, with an S at the end, which is also a name of a, a name of a cheese, the Langres cheese, which is excellent. And so I learnt also that one philosopher from the Enlightenment, Diderot, Denis Diderot was born there.
Annie Sargent: Oh.
Olivier Andrieu: So, I read about his history, about what he wrote and so on, so that was super interesting.
Annie Sargent: I think that would really appeal to me is you stop somewhere and you start looking around of, you know, what happened here? Where… I mean, you crossed a lot of World War I areas, right?
Olivier Andrieu: Oh, yeah.
Annie Sargent: I assume you saw a lot of memorials and things like that?
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah.
[00:28:50] Emotional Impact of World War Memorials
Olivier Andrieu: One of them is called the Ring of Remembrance. It’s near Arras. It’s an historical, impressive, and emotional place to see. The ring has been engraved with the names of 580,000 soldiers who lost their lives in Northern France. The names are arranged in alphabetic order with no distinction between nationalities, rank, gender, or religion.
Annie Sargent: Mm.
Olivier Andrieu: And a friend of mine who runs an accommodation in the village nearby this Ring of Remembrance, she told me that an American pilgrim she hosted, he cried when he realized how terrible had been World War I. He told her that people in the US are more sensitive and knowledgeable, of course, about World War II, like the D-Day in Normandy and so on.
Annie Sargent: Yeah.
Olivier Andrieu: But discovering how families, villages, and landscapes had been damaged during the first World War was a big shock for him.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. It’s true that World War II was,the end of World War II coincided with a big push in movie productions and-
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: … you know, and they made a lot of movies about the heroism, and of course, since it was mostly American movies at the time, it’s mostly Americans who are lauded and, you know, I mean, that, that… It’s normal, right? They were making the movies. They showed off.
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: But truly, World War I, in many ways, had more impact on the French psyche and on our desire for peace, let’s put it this way.
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: Because not a single family was spared. Everyone lost people, and every village, especially in Northeastern France, the devastation was terrible, you know.
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, I can tell you, about what you just said, my grand-grandfather, he died in early July 1916 in the Verdun battle, and they never found his body, but we knew that he died there. And when I was a teenager, I went in the cellar of my grandma, and I say, “Can I take this wooden box?” Because I like to hang around and search for things. And that box, wooden box, was full of letters from my family and relatives and people around my, living around my family, if I can say. And there were still letters of my grand-grandfather that he was writing when he was on the front to his wife. She was pregnant of their second child, and he never saw… Just a couple of days before he was going to come back home, he got killed on the front, during the battle and he never saw his second child.
Annie Sargent: It’s terrible what happened to all of these people, like, it’s hard to do it justice, the sacrifice that they, that they suffered. And it’s all over, like, so that’s one of the big reasons why walking is so wonderful is because, of course you’re limited to what you see that day, right? There might be things 10 kilometers away that are really also interesting, but you’re going to run into so many… I mean, the reason why this path has been forged in that direction, there are historical reasons why the path goes this way and not another way, right?
Olivier Andrieu: Exactly.
Annie Sargent: Yes, walking you don’t cover as much ground, but I sometimes wonder, you know, what I like to do is I go somewhere with my car, but I bring my bike because then I can park the car and on the bike I can go look around and see more stuff because if I was just walking, I feel like I, perhaps I’m not covering enough ground, but I think perhaps you do anyway, like, perhaps you see enough of the countryside and of the area.
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, no, absolutely, yes. What you mentioned is absolutely right. I probably missed many things which were just five kilometers. Five kilometers doesn’t look a, a long distance, but when you already did 25 kilometers, you just don’t want to walk an extra mile.
Annie Sargent: Exactly.
[00:32:59] The Beauty of Slow Travel
Olivier Andrieu: Butthat slow, slow travel has allowed me also to stop so many times for 20, 30 minutes just watching a flower, just watching a snail, an insect, and I had no pressure and I could see a lot more than if I was driving.
Olivier Andrieu: So, no regret at all to have just followed the Camino because just, as you said, on this route alone, the things I could feel, I could see, I could hear, it was impressive.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:32] Using Apps to Document the Journey
Annie Sargent: You used some apps. I’m looking through your notes here. One of the things you recommend is to use an app like Find Penguins or Polarsteps?
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, exactly.
Annie Sargent: Tell us about these.
Olivier Andrieu: Find Penguins, that’s the app I used. I think it’s, especially afterwards, after I came back home, I was so happy I did that, that every day I posted some pictures, but also not only pictures, I was writing, so some funny stuff like my poem about my bag. But also I was telling things about the history, so for example, about Diderot in Langres, about Gustave Courbet in Ornans. I did not … I never heard about that city, Ornans, and it’s a beautiful city.
Annie Sargent: And Courbet is amazing. He’s an amazing painter.
Olivier Andrieu: And Courbet was born there. So then you start checking on Wikipedia, all the major paintings of Courbet, say, “Wow,” and I like this one and this one and this one.
Olivier Andrieu: And so I could share that with my friends and relatives on the Find Penguins app, with some comments and so on.
Olivier Andrieu: And the beauty that at the end of my trip, cherry on the cake, with no effort, they allow you to print or they offer you to print a book, that big, with all your pictures, with all your comments, and it’s very well organized. You don’t have to do anything. And you can see your progress on the map and so on. It’s beautiful.
Annie Sargent: That’s wonderful. Yeah. So you have a book that retraces your steps.
Olivier Andrieu: Exactly.
Annie Sargent: And I assume, I assume they want you to buy a few copies to give to your kids and your family and friends and stuff. Yes.
Olivier Andrieu: Exactly.
Annie Sargent: But it’s like your private journey. I like to read old stories of the people who explored new places in Africa or Australia or places like that. But, you know, it feels the same if you’re doing it today, you’re walking this path that you don’t know. And it’s a path of discovery. Of course, you’re not discovering anything that people have never seen before, but it’s still your discovery. It’s your path.
Olivier Andrieu: Exactly. No, absolutely. A couple of times I was surprised to see reactions from my friends, for example, I was taking a picture just of the, you know at the beginning of spring, the green color of the leaves is very intense.
Annie Sargent: Yes.
Olivier Andrieu: And so I took a couple of pictures, put them in my book, and some of my friends said, “Wow. You’re so lucky. It’s so nice.” And I was thinking, wow, take your feet and just go to the next forest which is two kilometers away from where you live and you will see exactly the same. You can discover things which are literally next door, which are literally two kilometers away from your house.
Annie Sargent: Yes. Yes. I think it’s a question of being engaged with nature and being engaged with the place where we live. We’re very lucky, we both live in France where we have a lot of history, a lot of beauty, a lot of nature. But it’s not like the rest of the world doesn’t have those things. Everywhere has an interesting side, natural side and historical things. And it’s really important to discover those things. Because I think it’s … it helps you have a better life. You sent me a picture of these little crocuses. It’s the small things, but they are so beau- like, if I tried to make a thing like that, I could not, but nature does it every year, you know?It’s really impressive what you can see when you go on a trip like this.
Annie Sargent: All right.
[00:37:02] Unexpected Encounters and Local Stories
Annie Sargent: So you mentioned the city of Langres. Are there other, a few other places that you came across that you particularly enjoyed, that you thought, “Wow, I wouldn’t have known about this place if I hadn’t walked”?
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah, sure. There was the Cathedral of Reims.
Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm.
Olivier Andrieu: We always hear about theNotre-Dame de Paris which is the most famous one in France and maybe in the world.But when you look at the history, so again reaching Reims, I spent a bit of time on the,about some figures about the city and also about the history obviously, and the cathedral is the main thing of the, of the city. Only two kings have been sacred in Notre-Dame de Paris…. when 31 kings have been sacred in the Cathedral of Reims.
Annie Sargent: Right.
Olivier Andrieu: … between the year 816 and 1825. So during 800 years, almost all of the kings in France have been sacred in Reims. And this is something I probably learned when I was a kid, but it’s always good to remember, when you walk, when you arrive in the city. And then you have this story where I was trying to find accommodation in about probably 10 kilometers after Reims and I finally found a kind of Airbnb.
Olivier Andrieu: It was in the, really in the countryside in the vineyards. And it was a rather old lady, and she was a vineyard owner. She was making champagne in the past and now her daughter took over, but she was still running the Airbnb. She had two rooms.
Olivier Andrieu: And I was staying there, and she, I could really feel that she wanted to have a chat with me, so I went to see her in the kitchen, and we started to have a chat, and I explained to her what I was doing and she explained me about her history, her life. About the champagne. And suddenly she said, “Oh, would you like to share with me a bottle of champagne?” I said, “Of course, I do.” And we spent a very lovely evening together drinking champagne and talking,sharing things about our own lives, about our family and so on. That was super nice.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. You run into interesting people. And of course, because you speak French, it’s easy, because I’m sure she might not, her English might not be good enough to do that with English speakers. But it’s wonderful what you run into. You mentioned, let’s see Wissant, you walked from Calais to Wissant?
Olivier Andrieu: Yes. And that’s a 20 kilometers, I think,stage.
Olivier Andrieu: And you just go, either you’re on a very white sand beaches, very nice, and if it’s not sand beaches, then it’s,cliffs made of chalk. They are about 100 meters high, so they are very impressive, very nice.
Olivier Andrieu: And you, it was really, when it’s a sunny day, it’s a fantastic stage. And you arrive at the small village of Wissant, when you can have a local craft beer. That’s almost paradise.
Annie Sargent: What surprised you on this trip? I asked you the question and your answer in writing was you knew about rural decertification, but you ran across a lot of villages with, that had houses for sale, and very few people left.
Annie Sargent: Tell us about that a little bit.
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah. I, of course, I read that already when I was a child in the school books. Of course, I saw that already before when I was going on holidays, but really when you walk, you see things with more intensity probably.
Olivier Andrieu: And so when you reach a small village and you see so many of these houses for sale, and some of them were beautiful, they were probably very cheap to buy, but there is no work locally, there is no more industry, there are no more people working there, so most people are retired, who are still living there. And that’s really a pity because, it has probably been many very nice villages to live in, and today people are gone, and I’m not blaming them because you have to live in a place where you can work. But I could really feel that and that’s probably a pity that’s happening in many regions of France.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. And this is a reminder that, you know, as we record this, there are a lot of Americans who say, “Oh, I would love to have a place in France.” If you look outside of big cities, you will find a lot of wonderful places. A lot of them are fixer-uppers, though, so there’s a lot of work to be done. It’s probably a job for younger people, something for younger people.
[00:41:36] Cost and Accommodation Tips
Annie Sargent: How much did it costto do this walk? Did you have to, did it cost a lot of money?
Olivier Andrieu: Well, you can stay at places where they accept Donativo. So Donativo is you can give whatever you want for the dinner, the night, and the breakfast, and it can be as cheap as 25 euros.
Annie Sargent: Mm.
Olivier Andrieu: There are also places where you will need to book accommodations through Booking or Airbnb. However, when you walk with a companion, if you manage to book a hotel room or an apartment with two beds, you can have very affordable solutions, even in towns. That’s what I did with my good Scottish friend, Kathleen. And also in many places, you can access a kitchen that will allow you to cook your own stuff, and it’s cheaper, and at least you can enjoy your own cooking. So I would say every day would cost between, as a cheaper 25 euros to probably 75 euros at the maximum.
Annie Sargent: Okay. So it’s not like a big budget. I mean, it’s 100 days, so you have to-
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah.
Annie Sargent: You have to keep going. But it’s not super expensive. I mean, there are plenty of-
Olivier Andrieu: No, you’re right. We even saw two ladies who were doing it in the, in a specificway, religious way that they would do it without any money. So they decided not to take any money and they would call people to try to say, “Can we stay in your convent? Can we stay at your place? But look, we do not have any money.” They were also trying to get food, fruits and stuff to eat, free of charge from everywhere they were going.
Annie Sargent: Hmm.
Olivier Andrieu: I think they were struggling a bit, but just to say that this is possible as well.
Annie Sargent: Wow. That’s impressive. So they did it the real pilgrim way, like, because a lot of pilgrims, you know, they, it’s not like they showed up with a lot of money either.
(Mid-roll ad spot)
Annie Sargent: All right.
[00:43:22] Future Walking Plans and Reflections
Annie Sargent: We’ve been talking a long time, but I want to give you a chance to… do you have advice for people who want to do this? Are you, yourself planning more walks?
Olivier Andrieu: Yes, definitely. I think when you,it was my first serious walk, I met a lot of experienced walkers who warned me, they said, “Olivier, after this one, there will be others.” And actually, I met a couple from Switzerland who did a famous walk in Japan.
Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm.
Olivier Andrieu: This is a country my wife and I would like to discover, and I think doing it through walking is probably the best option to appreciate the landscape and to get to know the culture. So definitely, yes, I will do other walks. Now I need to go back to work first, but then, for sure, I will walk again because I discovered a new way of spending couple of weeks, and I really loved it.
Annie Sargent: Yeah. And your wife might go along next time, huh?
Olivier Andrieu: Yeah. No, she actually… You know what? She did the two stages in the UK, she joined me a couple of times in France, couple of times in Switzerland as well in, she did the finish with me in Tuscany, and in Rome, three, four days was enough for her. She said, “I’m not sure I would like to doseveral weeks in a row,” but couple of days was a good, solution for her.
Olivier Andrieu: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for talking to me, Olivier.Pleasure.
Annie Sargent: We hear a lot about the Camino, but this was Via Francigena, and we haven’t really discussed it very much, but I think it’s worth looking into because it sounds like it took you through some beautiful places.
Olivier Andrieu: No, absolutely. And I walked with many people who did the two of them. And of course, the Santiago is incredible thing to do and is extremely well known, but I think there are also places where you have maybe up to 100 people walking and you have places where you can stay, you have 100 bay- beds or even 200. On the Via Francigena, it’s more, it’s very quiet. It’s more a kind of a introspective, introspection thing.
Annie Sargent: Fewer people.
Annie Sargent: Yes, a lot fewer people, a lot to see as well, you cross four countries, which is five if I count the Vatican. So it’s an exceptional… Well, that’s right, it’s England, France, you go through Switzerland?
Olivier Andrieu: Switzerland, of course, yeah. Italy and Vatican.
Annie Sargent: And the Vatican, wow.
Annie Sargent: Wonderful.
Annie Sargent: Olivier, thank you so much for talking to me, and happy, happy trails.
Olivier Andrieu: Thank you very much.
Annie Sargent: Merci beaucoup.
Olivier Andrieu: Nice talking to you. Merci beaucoup. Bye-bye.
Annie Sargent: Au revoir.
[00:45:56] Thank you Patrons
Annie Sargent: Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving back and supporting the show. Patrons get several exclusive rewards for doing that. You can see them at patreon.com/joinus. No new patrons this week. If you enjoy the show and want to support it, Patreon is always there, but most of all, thank you for listening.
Annie Sargent: And to support Elyse, go to patreon.com/elysart.
[00:46:26] VoiceMap Tours
Annie Sargent: Somebody left this review of one of my VoiceMap tours recently.
Annie Sargent: “Le Marais,
Annie Sargent: incredible amount of detail throughout the tour with spots to sit and really valuable historic and cultural references to learn about. Highly recommended if you’re curious about one of the oldest and best-preserved areas of Paris.”
Annie Sargent: Really, VoiceMap is like having your own private tour guide in your pocket, you can pause whenever you want, you can grab a coffee, explore a side street, and the tour picks right back up when you’re ready, no rushing, no schedule to follow.
Annie Sargent: Podcast listeners get an exclusive discount when you buy these tours directly from my website, that’s also the best way to support the show because it means more of what you pay comes straight to me instead of going to Apple or Google.
Annie Sargent: One of my patrons asked me how do my tours work. So, let me explain briefly.
Annie Sargent: It’s easy. You install the VoiceMap app on your phone, that’s free, and then you can buy the tour directly from the phone and download it instantly or go to my boutique and order tour codes, the ones that you want, and then enter that code in the app to download the tour. It’s not an immediate process if you go through my website, but you do get a nice discount in return.
Annie Sargent: Go to joinusinfrance.com/boutique and click on Order Tour Codes to read the details. And if you’re planning a trip to France and would like some expert help, you can hire me as your itinerary consultant.
Annie Sargent: If you already have a plan, I can help you fine-tune it. And if you’re just feeling overwhelmed by all the choices and not sure what sources to trust, I can design a custom plan for you. You’ll find all the details at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
[00:48:15] 36 Hours in Toulouse
Annie Sargent: A lot of you sent me that article about Toulouse called, “36 Hours in Toulouse.”
Annie Sargent: And I want to be honest, this is not my Toulouse. I know The New York Times runs that whole ’36 Hours in…’ series, and this piece clearly follows the rules and tropes of that format: quick hits, polished addresses, a kind of greatest hit list.
Annie Sargent: But that’s exactly what bothers me about it. It encourages a kind of checklist tourism, people swinging through just long enough to say, “I’ve done Toulouse,” and that’s never been my favorite part of travel.
Annie Sargent: It’s also a version of the city that feels expensive, curated, and very, very upper class.
Annie Sargent: I’ve done okay in my life, sure, but my tastes are still deeply working class and this list just isn’t speaking to that. I honestly wonder how many of those recommendations are sponsored or something, because I would never think to put the Chateau d’Eau at the top of a visitors list.
Annie Sargent: It’s interesting, okay, but it’s small, it’s not open very much, and when it is open, it’s a bit stuffy, like…
Annie Sargent: same thing with the restaurant picks, who exactly needs to be told that Toulouse has some Michelin-starred restaurants or luxury boutiques? People with money already know that. They’ll find it instantly.
Annie Sargent: What’s missing is what actually makes Toulouse feel alive, our open air and covered markets, rugby culture, everyday food, the mix of students, families, and workers. In a publication with that kind of prestige, I’d much rather see a more comprehensive piece, one that shows not just the city but the region with the day trips and the reasons to stay five to seven days and really get to know the place.
Annie Sargent: That would feel closer to the Toulouse that I love and where I was born and where I live to this day, et cetera.
[00:50:20] Christmas Windows
Annie Sargent: Let’s take a peek behind the scenes of one of Paris’s most beloved Christmas traditions, the animated holiday windows of the big department stores. This tradition began in 1909, and every year, places like Le Bon Marche, Printemps, Galeries Lafayette compete to amaze families who come from all over to admire these magical displays.
Annie Sargent: What we rarely see is the enormous amount of work that goes into creating them. At Printemps, which is the best one in my opinion, the team began working on this year’s theme last December.
Annie Sargent: For 2025, they chose New York. A way to evoke the energy of Times Square, Fifth Avenue, and all the iconic sights of Manhattan.
Annie Sargent: The store also opened a new location in New York earlier this year, so the theme lets them, you know, connect the two cities.
Annie Sargent: Julie Ducat, the artistic director in charge of the windows, has been designing these displays for nearly 15 years. She draws inspiration from comic strips like those in The New Yorker and this year imagined a whole cast of eccentric dogs exploring the streets of New York.
Annie Sargent: They climb on taxi roofs, cause mischief, each one has a distinct personality just like the people of the city they represent. Once the characters are imagined, they need to be dressed. That’s where Valerie Cutter comes in. She is the store’s in-house stylist and spends about six months making tiny, perfectly detailed outfits for 135 figures.
Annie Sargent: Jackets, hats, aprons, scarves, even miniature accessories. She says she obsesses over every detail because she knows visitors will notice. Then comes the animation. Two weeks before the grand unveiling, marionettist, Sylvain Ducloux, installs every scene. His family has been animating these Christmas windows for three generations.
Annie Sargent: He brings the characters to life using delicate nylon threads and tiny motors hidden four meters above the displays. Some actions like a basketball dribble look effortless to visitors, but require incredible precise engineering behind the scenes. Throughout the two months the windows stay up, he and his colleagues inspect each character daily to make sure nothing breaks under the lights or constant motion.
Annie Sargent: All of this creativity also has a business side. Christmas accounts for about 30% of the department store’s annual revenue. As Julie Ducat explains, “The windows aren’t just there to delight children, they’re part of the whole strategy to bring people inside the store. A passerby who stops to look might become a customer.”
Annie Sargent: And as millions of visitors admire the New York scenes on Boulevard Haussmann this year, Julie and her team are already starting to think about next Christmas. Because for these artisans, designers, and technicians, keeping the magic alive is a year-round job.
[00:53:33] Free Flow Tolling on the A13
Annie Sargent: Let’s talk about one year of free flow tolling on the A13. This is an experiment that’s been running for a year now on the A13 motorway near Bucholy in the Yvelines. You may remember a massive toll booth there. Probably you don’t, but I do, it was massive. We have them all over France, really.
Annie Sargent: That toll booth is gone. The A13 is now using what they call peage en flux libre, meaning drivers no longer stop at toll barriers. The road is still tolled, but the old booths have disappeared.
Annie Sargent: A year into this system, most drivers say it’s a big improvement. According to SANEF, the company that runs the A13, 83% of motorists find the new system more convenient, mainly because it’s smoother and there are fewer traffic jams.
Annie Sargent: People with telepeage badges don’t notice much difference, that would be me, but drivers who pay manually now have up to 72 hours to settle their toll online or at a partner tobacconist.
Annie Sargent: That three-day delay is still tight for some, but SANEF says 95% of drivers manage to pay on time. There is always a few who refuse to pay, but they now risk fines of up to 375 Euros.
Annie Sargent: The Interior Ministry isn’t saying how many have been fined, but SANEF has flooded the motorway with information, 200 signs, overhead banners, illuminated displays, and even reminder letters when someone forgets to pay for the first time without a penalty.
Annie Sargent: And I have witnessed these very large informational signs, if you miss it, you’re trying to miss it, okay? The switch to free flow tolling has had clear effects. After a year, SANEF reports fewer traffic jams, fewer accidents, and a more fluid drive along that section of the A13.
Annie Sargent: And of course, they warn drivers about scams. Fraudulent text messages have been circulating pretending to come from SANEF and demanding payment. The company insists that they never send toll payments requests by SMS. So if you get one, it’s a scam. You need to initiate the payment process, and that’s true for anything. If you get an unsolicited request to click on a link, don’t do it. Unless you know exactly why you’re doing it, okay?
Annie Sargent: My thanks to podcast editors Anne and Christian Cotovan, who produced the transcripts.
[00:56:19] Next week on the podcast
Annie Sargent: Next week on the podcast, an episode that’s going to be perfect for those of you who have a New Year resolution that you want to learn French in 2026.
Annie Sargent: I’ll publish my chat with Deborah Pham about the Basque Country and learning French after 50. She runs a service called Feel Good French, and she was a delight to talk to.
Annie Sargent: Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you join me next time so we can look around France together.
Annie Sargent: And Happy New Year to you and Au revoir!
Annie: The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted, and produced by Annie Sargent, and Copyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance. It is released under a Creative Commons attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives license.
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Episode PageCategories: Active Vacations in France, Off the Beaten Track in France