Table of Contents for this Episode
Category: Moving to France
589 29 Days to France with Stephen Heiner and Molli Sébrier (March 15)
[00:00:00]
Annie Sargent: This is Join Us in France, episode 589, cinq cent quatre-vingt-neuf.
Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent, and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation with Stephen Heiner and Molli Serbier. Molli S– Mm.
With S–
Today on the podcast
Annie Sargent: Today, I bring you a conversation with Stephen Heiner and Molli Sebrier about their journey, and yours perhaps, to moving to France.
Whether you’re dreaming of a fresh start, navigating visas, or wondering if the expat life is right for you, they share hard-won advice, hilary– hilarious mishaps, and the real secrets to making France home.
Get ready for inspiration and a reality [00:01:00] check.
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Whether you book an itinerary consult, take one of my VoiceMap tours in Paris, join me for a day trip in my electric car around the southwest of France, of course. Join me for a day trip in my electric car around the southwe– Blah. join me for a day trip in my electric car around the southwest of France, or support the show on Patreon. You keep this whole adventure going, and I’m deeply grateful.
If you’d like to support the podcast and skip the ads this year, you’ll find the link in the show notes, and all my tours and services are at joinusinfrance.com/boutique. the ma-
Magazine segment
Annie Sargent: For the magazine part of the podcast, after my chat with Stephen and Molli today, I’ll discuss the temporary return of an iconic painting to Paris and also a new inexpensive restaurant French people love in Paris.
If you want to explore more of France with me, join us, join all our episode…
No. If you want to explore, if you want… Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you want to explore more of France with me, browse all of our episodes at joinusinfrance.com/episodes, and don’t forget to grab your free weekly recap [00:02:00] of the best stories, tips, and hidden gems. Just sign up at joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
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Meet the guests
Annie Sargent: Bonjour, Stephen and Molli, and welcome to Join Us in France.
Stephen Heiner: Bonjour.
Molli Sebrier: Bonjour.
Annie Sargent: Wonderful to have you. Today, we are going to talk about, well, um, y- your company, which is called 29 Days to France, unless I’m mistaken. Is that the name of the company? Is that the name of the book?
Stephen Heiner: It’s the name of the book. It’s the name of the book. It, It comes from a publishing house called uh, 29 Days, and they do different books on different subjects.
Annie Sargent: Ah, okay, okay. Now, you two started collaborating a long time ago, and you wrote this uh, fairly short book about moving to France.
And the reason why I was interested is because, well, there’s a lot of [00:03:00] interest in moving abroad for uh, people uh, in the US right now. And so, I wanted to ask you, how realistic is it for most people uh, to make a plan to to, um, move to Europe, and how could people tell I’m a good candidate, I’m not a good candidate? I’ll let you take it away, Stephen.
A Compelling Why
Stephen Heiner: Gosh, what an awesome starting question, but so many different avenues, especially because Molli and I came via separate paths. We didn’t know each other when we first came to France, and we had different plans probably. But I think both of us had what we argue for in our book at the very beginning, which is a compelling why.
What’s the reason that you’re coming to France? And that doesn’t have to be the reason forever. It could be the reason that gets you there, and maybe there’s a different reason that develops, and then there’s maybe a different reason 10 years later.
But part of any international move is knowing what that reason is, is because it’s going to have to overcome all of the challenges that come with [00:04:00] it, language, being away from your friends, being away from your family, being away from your home culture.
And I think sometimes people can stay in France one, two, three, maybe even four months and say, "You know what? I could live here for the rest of my life."
Or, you know, they, they watch "A Year in Provence" or something else like that, and I, I, I, I, I, I get all that. But to have long-term success, you really have to plan and keep going with that planning throughout.
And mine originally started quite differently from Molli’s. She has so many interesting stories to tell. So, I’ll just te- I’ll tell, I’ll tell mine briefly, and then I’ll hand it to her.
Steven’s Visa Path
Stephen Heiner: I came over as a visitor originally. I had sold a company, and the visitor visa at that time, and still to this day, there’s.., we can get into that later in the episode if you’d like, didn’t, um, didn’t allow you to work in France at the time.
And so you, You simply have to provide some sort of documentation that you have means to live in France. The French government want to make sure that you’re able to do that. And, uh, I did that for a couple years before transitioning to what is effectively a freelancer visa, which allowed me to work in France, uh, [00:05:00] up to a certain income limit.
Annie Sargent: So when you say visa, you just became an auto-entrepreneur?
Stephen Heiner: Uh, that’s a, That’s a tax classification, and that’s changed over the years. But effectively, there was a profession libérale visa, and you can have different classifications for your profession libérale visa.
But yes, that’s the freelancer visa. But originally, I had… I didn’t even know what that was. When I first came, which was in 2013, I I s- found what information I could, which there wasn’t, and I got a visitor visa. And I told everybody I’m going to go for a year because I didn’t even know how to renew the visa at the time. I thought maybe this is it, and this is all I can do, and I come back after a year.
So that’s how I first got to France, and I… Part of why we wrote the book is we didn’t know any of what we put w- we put in the book. We thought i- if we were coming to France all over again, what would we like to know? And we put it into the book.
Annie Sargent: Very good. All right, let’s hear from you, Molli. How did it work for you?
Molli’s France Journey
Molli Sebrier: So to Stephen’s point, my why definitely changed over the years. And I mean, [00:06:00] initially, France took me by surprise, I would say. I went over for the first time when I was in uni, and I did my semester abroad, which was even something I never really planned on doing. I didn’t even have a passport at the time. Um, But I decided to go for it, and I just fell in love with Paris. I fell in love with, at the time, what I had perceived to be the French lifestyle. Years later, I knew what I was living when I was a student wasn’t, you know, the way that most French people actually live. But I had a wonderful time, and I went back to the United States to finish my degree.
And I always had in the back of my mind that I wanted to go back to France. There was just something about the country that was really pulling me in. And I got a quite random opportunity via someone who I did study abroad with, who was a fille au pair. So she was nannying for a Franco-American family. We were chatting one day on Facebook, and I was just kind of picking her brain, asking her how she did it, if she liked it, all of the, you know, normal [00:07:00] questions. And as our conversation was coming to a close, she said, "Well, this is kind of funny that you’re messaging me. I’m actually planning on leaving my position. Would you like to take it over for me?"
Annie Sargent: Oh, wow.
Molli Sebrier: And yes, yes. And so luckily, I had a lot of babysitting experience at the time. I had worked as a nanny already. I met with this um, family over a video call. We spoke for about an hour, and they ended up hiring me on the spot. And I left probably five months later.
And like Stephen, initially, it was only supposed to be one year. Um, Most au pairs when they go over, it’s just for one year. But I ended up falling more and more in love with France. I fell in love with the children I was taking care of, the family I was working for. And the more time I spent in France, the more I didn’t want to go back to the United States. And so I kept extending it and kept extending it and kept extending it. I ended up staying.
Annie Sargent: A- And you can do that on a nanny visa?
Molli Sebrier: So for the au pair, you have a limit after two years. So I did, [00:08:00] I did that for two years. From there, I transitioned to a student visa because at the time I didn’t speak French. And at the time as I was, you know, becoming more and more serious about wanting to actually create a real life there for myself, not just as this nanny, I realized, okay, I really need to learn how to speak French, I really need to integrate.
I really wanted to become French essentially. And in order to do that, you need to learn the language. And so I did a two-year program to learn French. Um, From there I did a two-year master’s program, and in the interim as I was getting my master’s degree, I met my now husband, who is French, and that kind of is what really ended up tying me to the country um, long term. So as you can see, my why changed a lot over the years, but I always had something that was keeping me there, that was very important to me.
Annie Sargent: Right.
Freelancer Visa Basics
Annie Sargent: And it’s not, I mean, moving to France, a, a, a lot of the inquiries I get are not from young people who can go that route. Um, I mean, it’s [00:09:00] interesting you mentioned the um, profession libérale, because I mean, you’re not a lawyer. Profession libérale, you think you’re going to be a lawyer, right? But you’re not, you’re, you’re an author, you’re an entrepreneur, right?
Stephen Heiner: It’s funny, Annie, because in your mind, in the, in the French-speaking mind, this conjures up things. So people don’t realize the legislation for profession libérale dates back to the time of Louis XIV. And it was simply because they needed to invent something that wasn’t, uh, that wasn’t nobility. W- It was something, basically like you’re a merchant of, of sorts. And over time that involved you could be a merchant of these types of services, or, or… and there, there became sub-classifications, commercial, et cetera.
And so it’s really a catch-all. The French, French business law hasn’t caught up to the digital age yet, that’s why there’s been so much strife about remote work and other things regarding French visas, because as we know, France moves slowly when it comes to things.
That’s why I had a visa classification that was still dating back hundreds of years, effectively.
So yeah, profession libérale in this context and what you’re referring to, [00:10:00] is having the chance to, to freelance. And I- We’ve helped people with all sorts of… One of the funny things over the years of having the, the website Molli now runs, called uh, The Americans- The American in Paris, is people would come to us asking for help with their visa applications, and we only, we, we just taught what we learned ourselves. We had to,
We had to learn by trial and error. And you can, you can start a profession libérale, a freelancer business in almost anything that the French find believable. And for me, still the funniest one that we helped with was a girl who started a ‘Picnics in Paris business’.
Annie Sargent: Those are really popular as a matter of fact.
Bureaucracy and Paperwork
Stephen Heiner: 100%. But y- part of what you have to understand about the French entrepreneur, uh, French bureaucratic mind, is they always search for the certification. The French need proof that you have been trained to do something.
Now, what is the proof that you’ve been trained to do picnics in Paris, right? So here’s, Here’s where the adaptation comes, and the French have to be given credit for this. They will say, "Well, where’s your certification in planning picnics?" She had a marketing degree, and she was [00:11:00] able to say, "I have the ability to market this idea, and I think it would work, and here are some test cases," et cetera. And she, she got the, she got the visa for that, for planning picnics.
So I’m not saying have some far-fetched idea, but the idea is if your idea can serve the French market, then, and it’s plausible, because the person reviewing your application is not an expert uh, in business. They are a French bureaucratic functionary. And I’ve said over the years, the best thing you can do for a French bureaucratic functionary is make their life simple.
Annie Sargent: Well, that’s definitely true, yes.
Stephen Heiner: They, They want to take their uh, cigarette and coffee break at 10:00 AM and 2:00 PM with their friends, and they want to go in with a good mood. And if someone comes in with like a jerk without the proper paperwork, acting very entitled, you’ve ruined their day, and trust me, they’re going to ruin your day.
Annie Sargent: Definitely.
Stephen Heiner: But if you go in there with all of the paperwork they’ve asked for, and even five or six pieces of paperwork they didn’t ask for, and you have it in reserve, you’re going to make their day, and it isn’t the nightmare that many people [00:12:00] write about who I think were under-prepared. Um, The French have to deal with it too, it isn’t something that foreigners have to deal with alone.
Annie Sargent: Right. And it’s really, really important that you read through everything they send you very carefully, and make sure you dot all your T’s and… No, you dot your I’s and you cross your T’s, right?
Stephen Heiner: Correct.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, you do that. You have to do that. Otherwise, you know, if, if you’re half-baked, it’s not going to work.
Author Visa Options
Annie Sargent: Okay, so let me throw a hypothetical at you, because these are real friends of mine who are trying to do this. They’re both authors, very successful authors. Uh, They make a good living from this, uh, but their books have nothing to do with France.
And so, the, the proposal she’s doing, she’s saying, "Well, I’m going to write books based on Join Us in France." So it’s going to be, uh, you know, life in France, how to, how, how to kind of things, but also, um, you know, going to visit places.
Do you think she should apply as uh, talents and [00:13:00] what’s it called? Talents and…
Stephen Heiner: So passport talent has a special sub-classification for authors, so that is one way that you can go, and the o- original visa length for that can be longer. Really honestly, with an artist in this particular situation, they could go either way. It just depends on what their preferences are, but the application will be quite similar.
But the point that you were making, with literature re- you don’t necessarily have to, um, you, you simply have to prove that the French might be interested in buying the product, right? So it could be about, I don’t know, sea snails in La Reunion or something. And i- i- you know, i- If you could plausibly say the French would be interested in it. It’s much, it’s much difficult… It, It would be more difficult to say, "I am going to import a particular type of paper from Gabon and sell it in Suriname. Well, then you’re just using France as a pass-through entity, and the French will say, "Well, what does that have to do with us?" You could do that through any country.
So the idea is, yes, you want to do business in France and you’ll contribute financially to the system, that’s one part of it. But they’re also looking to, I think, reinforce what is uh, in the front of [00:14:00] Versailles, À la toute la gloire de la France.
So they want to, they want to make sure that you’re going to increase the glory of France. And, you know, even if that’s picnics, that still counts.
Annie Sargent: Right. Right. So she has… All her books have been translated into France, French.
Stephen Heiner: Wonderful.
Annie Sargent: Uh, And she’s sold many books in France. Um, But these were a, a different genre.
Now she wants to go into a new genre that’s specifically um, for… But I don’t know if she would… uh… So would it be better if she said these books are for French people, or these books are for visitors?
Stephen Heiner: One of the things, one of the parts of this application is do you have legitimacy doing this thing? Well, and she already does. So what, What she does in the future or what books she writes, the French are not going to audit her. This is simply for the application.
So afterwards you’re not going to have someone call you in three years and say, "So what was that book that you wrote about? Was it about France?" The, The French have better things to do with their time. They don’t have the manpower to do that.
And honestly, all you’re doing is saying, "Hey, I’m going to be a taxpaying resident of France. I will [00:15:00] observe the laws, and I have an earnest application here to start a freelancing business."
And then what you do after that, you’re, you’re not tied to that forever. Obviously, if you keep that for a certain number of years, if you’re in France for five consecutive years and you show financial ties to France, then you’re free to apply for the carte de résident, the 10-year card, which is the golden ticket of visa classifications for foreigners.
It allows you to work in France. That means you could get a salariée, you could get a CDI, and um, do all the things that you would like to do short of citizenship. It’s a, It’s a wonderful visa classification, but you, you need to have… You need to prove language uh, efficiency, and that will… That goes up, I think, next year. And you need to prove financial ties to France, and uh, that’s easier to do if you have a business there.
Annie Sargent: Right. So should she open her business? Should she open her um, y- you know, her, uh, auto-entrepreneur sort of business before she applies?
Stephen Heiner: Well, she’s already an author, yes?
Annie Sargent: Yes, she’s already an author, and she’s published seven or eight or nine books, I’m not sure.
Stephen Heiner: Right. So [00:16:00] it’s not… Remember, as a freelancer visa, she doesn’t have to open up a French corporation or anything, or her own publishing house. She simply has to say, "I will do this." And then she sends it, this in for approval, and the whole process, and the French say yes or no. And then after that she can, she can move on.
Molli Sebrier: And I think you need a visa to even open an auto-entreprise. Like, she wouldn’t be, be able to open it just if, unless she already has her visa.
Annie Sargent: Okay. All right. All right, that’s, that’s great to know because she’s not sure if she should do it, the talent or the freelance stuff.
Remote Work Crackdown
Annie Sargent: And, uh, f- What’s for sure is she shouldn’t come as a visitor and work from France. No. And get paid in the US. Let’s discuss why that’s a bad idea.
Stephen Heiner: Um-
Molli Sebrier: That’s like a, That’s a, a very new development, in fact. And it was, It was something that we always advised people to do before, you know, this new legislation came out.
And it really has to do with the fact that the French you know, visa authorities and the French tax authorities, and many French governmental offices are very siloed, and they don’t speak with one [00:17:00] another, and they don’t really have anything to do with one another.
But it seems like apparently now, finally in 2025, they’re kind of catching on to, to people maybe finding these back ways around certain things. And they finally you know, made an announcement and, and took their stance on, on, on this, which in the past we’ve always consulted with people and we’ve always said, you know, unless proven otherwise, unless told by some French authority that this is not okay, we’re going to continue to advise on this.
And unfortunately, finally they did take their, you know, official stance on it, and they announced that a couple months ago, actually, I think it was in May or June. And so now it’s, like, official, like, they, the French government has said you are not allowed to work remotely for your home country on this visitor visa.
Annie Sargent: Right. Right.
Stephen Heiner: And Annie, even if you listen to how Molli articulates that, you can see the difference in Anglo-Saxon and French thinking. Uh, with, With Americans, if something isn’t prohibited, it’s allowed in our mind. If it doesn’t say no U-turn, it means we can [00:18:00] make a U-turn. In the French mind, if it doesn’t say you can do it, you can’t do it. And so you’ve had these varying interpretations. O- Obviously the foreigners coming in, we’re going to carry our own cultural baggage and we’re going to say, "Well, it doesn’t say you can’t."
And the ambiguity that Molli was referring to was the difference between the immigration authorities and the tax authorities. Tax authorities have no authority over immigration. The immigration authorities have no uh, authority over taxation. But the immigration authorities over and over and over would permit people to come into the country who we helped consult with, and their proof of income was the letter from their employer stating that they were going to work remotely…
Annie Sargent: Oh, wow.
Stephen Heiner: … as their proof of income, and approved.
We’ve never consulted with anyone and had them denied for a visa because of that. And even you could argue to this day you could still continue to do that. The problem is for people who want to build a long-term future in France, the tax authorities loom very largely, and you do not want to get on their bad side.
If you want to apply for the carte de résident, if you want to apply for citizenship, [00:19:00] one of the chief parts of your dossier the last three years, you have to also give a P237, which indicates that you are compliant with your tax needs, you just don’t owe anything.
But there shouldn’t be any sort of shadow of question about your income.
And in any case, applying for the carte de résident or citizenship will be difficult to do from the visitor visa because you can’t show anchorage in France. Um,
Where is your income being derived from? That, That’s a thing. When the French are looking for anchorage in France for a non-retired person, they’re asking, "Where is your money coming from?" And if it’s coming from abroad, then you’re, you’re, you don’t have anchorage to France, and, and that’s something that people have to be aware of.
So you could still come over if you, if you didn’t have long-term plans, and I have told this to people, s- even since the clarification that Molli spoke of. We have told people that if you only want to be in France a couple years and you’re working remotely, the eth- immigration authorities will approve you. You can be here. You might file one tax return, and there’s a box where you can truthfully show your foreign-derived income, and then [00:20:00] after your two years and you don’t renew and you leave France, that’s that.
But people who are, have been doing this for years, we’ve told them, "You need to probably switch visa classifications now or make other plans." Or as Molli did, you know, the easiest thing is just to find a lovely French person that you love and, and marry him or her. And, uh-
Annie Sargent: Yes, yes.
Stephen Heiner: All your problems will be solved. Uh, You’ll have other problems.
Annie Sargent: The other golden ticket. The other golden ticket.
Yeah, but if you have to divorce the first husband first, that might be a problem.
Stephen Heiner: Right. This is advice for single people. Let, Let me clarify that.
Annie Sargent: Yes, yes, yes.
Yeah, well, that’s, that’s great. So what do you…
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Planning and Timelines
Annie Sargent: So you’ve done this with uh, uh, probably any number of people. And w- What are the, the, the most common kind of stumbling block that uh, you find people? Is it in their head? Is it uh, coming up with the paperwork? Is it that they give up? Uh, you know, what, uh, What happens? Like, say I want to… Because I, I’ve read your book, so you say, you know, you need to set a date. Uh, I want to move to France by this date, and you s- you suppo- you s- I think you suggest a year, right?
Stephen Heiner: Yeah, that, uh, I think that’s one way that people can find it easy.
Some people go the other way, say, "I want to do [00:21:00] it in six or eight weeks." Do that, too. Uh, I think that’s suited to your personality, right? And your circumstances. That’s, you know, uh, Six or eight weeks is a lot easier for a single person. And a year, a y- A year might be great for a married pe- a married person or a, a, a married couple with kids.
Annie Sargent: Right, right.
Driver’s License Reality
Annie Sargent: Oh, yeah, my friends have to sell their house, sell their cars, uh, get a driver’s license, so they’re going to actually move to, I think she said Pennsylvania or Delaware. Can’t remember. The state that has, kind of reciprocal…
Stephen Heiner: Mm-hmm
Annie Sargent: … so they can… Because she knows it’s going to be hard to get a driver’s license.
Stephen Heiner: It’s, it’s a, it’s a great, It’s a great point you make, Annie. There’s only, I think, and Molli can, maybe Molli knows the exact number. I want to say it’s 27 or so American states. And, And the thing is it’s, it’s, um, it’s reciprocity, so those states provide reciprocal uh, licenses to people with French licenses. So if a, a French person comes and says, "Here’s my French license, can I get a Pennsylvania driver’s license?" Pennsylvania will give that to them. And I, I’m saying Pennsylvania. I, I don’t want to be quoted as if it… That- that’s changed recently. But, um, the states that don’t do that, France doesn’t give reciprocal to.
So we tell people, "If you’re going to live in La France [00:22:00] Profonde and you want a car, you’re going to need a license. If you don’t have, uh, a, and w- If you don’t come from a state that has that, consider getting it." You, There’s creative ways to do it. You can find a relative. You can find a friend. Ge- get a, Get a gas bill, then go and get the, get, get that license. Show up in France with that license. And you have to, you have to trade it in in your first year of residency in order to get that flip. Otherwise, you’re going to have to join French people in getting a French license, and Joe Startt has a very good book about this called French License.
The, the French, The French driving test w- literally requires trigonometry. Uh, You have to calc- You got, you… And there’s also calculations as to if I start braking here and I need to stop within this many meters, how much time do I need, et cetera. Those sort… We just aren’t asked those kinds of questions in America. We’re very, very simple.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, but normally you count the number of lines. You need to know what sort of road you’re on and how many lines there are between you and the… Because it’s standard. Okay, I used to ta- teach driving in France. I, I-
Stephen Heiner: Here we go.
Annie Sargent: I only taught for a year because it was really boring and awful, but I do have the credentials to [00:23:00] teach driving in France. Um, But yeah, you can figure it out quickly with the number of lines. But you have to know am I on a highway? Am I on a, m- m- you know, what’s… on a D road, on a M- M- N road, on an A road. You got to know these things, and then it’s standard. I’m really bad at math, and I passed first time.
That makes me feel better because I’m going to have to do that eventually because I’m from Rhode Island and we’re not in one of the reciprocal states.
Driving Without a French License
Annie Sargent: Right, and so this i- Yeah, this is a problem because I know someone, just one person, who has been driving uh, without a French license for 20-something years. Her husband, who is French um, insures the cars, and she’s never had an accident. So technically she’s insured, but i- if something goes wrong, it’s not going to be good because they’re going to ask her for her license.
Stephen Heiner: I was looking for a piece of wood to, to knock on, uh, Annie. Uh, the… So this is,
This is something you’re underlining. It’s technically illegal for a French resident to drive under a non-French license after your first year. That’s why they, they refer to that [00:24:00] 12 month. That’s your grace period to, hey, if you’re going to drive in France, you need to get a French driver’s license. You have 12 months to do that. So either flip or get educated.
So when I would rent a car in France to go on vacation with friends, uh, I was technically driving illegally. The, The car rental agency doesn’t know that I’m a resident of France, and in fact, they don’t care really because they’re not enforcers of the French law. They’re just renting you a car. Um, But strangely enough, when I would rent a car, sometimes they would ask for my ADF even with my f- with my foreign license. So I,
I remember one time I was stopped in Bordeaux. The, The speed limit had changed quite quickly. You know, that happens a lot in France and s- going through small towns.
And I realized, since I was driving illegally, I needed to lean into the fact that I had this accent, you know? So, police comes up.
Annie Sargent: My husband did this too.
Stephen Heiner: Police comes up, I, I say parlez-vous, parlez-vous anglais? And uh, he goes, "Oh, hold on." And he goes to get his, his partner who, who doesn’t speak very good English, but, but more than him. And uh, he sort of, you know, he says: "Uh, Yes. Are you, you visiting?" And [00:25:00] I said, "Yes, it’s true. I’m… It’s not a lie. I am visiting in this part of France."
And uh, I pointed to the, the speed limit. I said, "I thought it was this." He said, "Oh, it, it, it changes very quickly, uh, uh, you know, it’s confusing, I, I know." Uh, and- … And he says, "you have this, license from Kansas." I said, "Yes, that’s true." Again, I wasn’t going to give them any more information other than, you know, what they were asking. They go, and you could see the wheels turning, they would have to send the ticket to Kansas, maybe I would never pay it, et cetera. So he said, "Well, just, just, be more careful. Uh, the, The signs change, and you know, enjoy your time in France."
Annie Sargent: Wow.
Stephen Heiner: Thank you, Officer. So this is one time it happened, so just, you know, to your friend, your…
Annie Sargent: Yeah, you charmed them. Yeah. Yeah.
My husband got caught uh, with his phone in his hand, this was years ago. He didn’t have his license, French license yet. It took him three years, I think, to do it. Uh, he w- He started trying, but even when he started trying, he failed a couple times, so it took a while.
And, um, and so he was… He had his phone in his hand. He was just pausing, I think. And his mother was in the car, uh, his American mother. And so he said, [00:26:00] "Okay, I speak no French, okay? I speak no French." But he had a French car with a French license. But he’s a Twingo, no less. Who rents a Twingo? Like, okay! So he just, um, he just, just… Like, I can’t remember what he said, but they did give him a ti- ticket. And he paid it promptly, and nothing else happened with that.
But you really have to be careful, okay? Because this was not an accident. This was just a ticket. It’s fine. But if it’s an accident, they’re going to start asking questions, okay? So don’t do this. Get, Get proper license uh, when you, when you move here. And it’s best to plan ahead because it’s not easy.
Back to Common Pitfalls
Stephen Heiner: Annie, I want to go back to the question that started this driver’s license question, which was something that Molli would say to… we… Uh, so I had been doing consultations for years. I met Molli, we- we’re still disputing whether it’s 2016 or ’17. I, I think it’s ’17.
And sh- sh- She would talk about, couple years later when she started doing consultations as well because of people who wanted to come on an au pair, student visa, or vie privée, she had gotten all of these visas. And she would tell me, she said, "Stephen, you know, these people are so relieved when they get off [00:27:00] the phone with us." I doubt Molli could, you know, maybe share a bit more about what she remembers from that.
Molli Sebrier: Yeah.
Are People Prepared
Molli Sebrier: To, To go back to the original question, are they prepared? Is it the paperwork? Is it just fear? A lot of times, by the time people come to us, I find that they’re very prepared. They just want someone to say, "Yes, you’re prepared. Yes, you’ve done everything right."
They kind of want to walk through their plan with someone who has done it, someone who has lived in France. And uh, we can be there to say, "Yes, it’s going to work. No, it, it might not, you might want to change a few things." They essentially want someone there kind of holding their hand through the very tail end of the process.
Because most people, I would say probably 80% of people come to us right at the end. They already have their dossier all ready to go, and they just want that one last set of eyes by someone more experienced to look at it and say, "Yes, you should move forward with this. I have confidence in you. You’re going to be fine."
There’s maybe, I would… Yes, probably 20% of people who maybe have a loose plan in their mind, but they’re not [00:28:00] sure which visa category they fall into, somewhat like your friend. Like, is it passport talent? Is it prof lib? Is it you know, something beyond that? But I feel that most people find us towards the end, and they really just want that reassurance, like, "Yes, you’ll be fine. Yes, I believe in you." And I think, Stephen, that’s what you find too in most of your consultations.
Stephen Heiner: Yeah.
How The Service Started
Stephen Heiner: And part of that is, is because this isn’t how Molli and I make our living. It’s just we, We have different businesses and different projects. This is just something that has grown out of our passion to help people basically send down the elevator. The entire reason the website started originally was back in 2013. I went through my whole visa consultation… Sorry, visa consultation, visa appointment process in Chicago, and I took photos, and I wrote a whole article about how to do it. And I just put it up on the website and said, "I couldn’t find this information. Here’s the information, do with it what you will."
And it wasn’t too long before I started getting emails, and someone said, "Hey, I printed out your article, and I got my visa, and I want to buy you [00:29:00] a coffee the next time you’re, you’re in Paris." I said, "Oh, free coffee. Sure, I’ll take it".
And then that went to uh, "Can I pay you to help me?" And I thought, "You want to give me money? Okay. Sure. I’ll help you." And then the questions kept coming up. They were similar, and so that’s, that led to a video course, which we created, and then a book eventually.
The website just continues to catalog things. But, But two things, Annie, that we talk about a lot that really isn’t covered by the government instructions but is part of the French, again, way of thinking of it’s your job to know. The argument to the French bureaucracy always falls flat when you say you don’t know. The French are unimpressed by this.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, you should have known.
Stephen Heiner: You should have known.
Annie Sargent: "Nul n’est censé ignorer la loi."
Stephen Heiner: Right. And then you would say, "Well, how was I supposed to know?" This is the American argument, and the French will then shrug and say, "Well, that’s not my problem. That’s your problem." Right?
Taxes And Residency
Stephen Heiner: So in this particular case, the two that I want to highlight are tax residency and bank accounts. So tax residency, it’s important to [00:30:00] note that while you may not be earning income in France, that doesn’t mean you don’t have to file taxes in France. You have to file taxes in France because you are a tax resident of France. You’re a tax resident of France because you’re asserting to the French government that you live the majority of the year in France.
Now, there is some dispute as to the hundred and sixty-eight day rule, or however much that is. I’m not going to get into the weeds with the digital Karens who you know, spend their evenings and weekends you know, making people’s lives miserable about this.
The point is, if you are in France for… So for example, I came in December, December 13th, 2013. I did not file taxes for 2013, even though some people would say, "Well, you were in France for two weeks, so you should, you should…" No.
I did, though, for the year 2014, but only under advice from a friend of a friend of a friend. They said, "You need to file taxes." I said, "Why would I do that?" I didn’t file them until, I think, 2016, and then I had to file for two years after. So filing, uh,
Filing taxes is a thing. Molli’s [00:31:00] found a couple um, resources which are posted on the website. So if you just go to the website, click uh, Our Accountant Recommendations. They’re on the, the right, and I’m sure Annie might know some great people, too.
Getting a French Bank Account
Stephen Heiner: The other is getting a French bank account. Now, how this has changed over the years is there have been companies like N26 and Revolut and Wise that have created, you could say, substitutes for bank accounts. They’re not technically banks. These are financial institutes, they’re, I don’t know, fintech companies, and they’ve found a way to simulate being a bank of sorts.
Now, some prefectures will allow you to use a Revolut bank account as your French bank account when you give them bank statements to show that you’ve been living in France. Other prefectures don’t allow it. So the advice we give…
Annie Sargent: Yeah, I would stay away from that. Like, You need to have a bank they’ve heard of. Like, they haven’t heard of Revolut, I mean, come on.
Stephen Heiner: So the, the, the, The advice we give is the advice that always works, which is you always win with a French bank account. Otherwise, you’re taking a risk.
Annie Sargent: It’s obvious.[00:32:00]
Stephen Heiner: The thing is, the French banks are not always excited to give bank accounts to Americans, and this is because of legislation that went into effect under Obama, 2012, called FATCA. But it effectively, a banker has told me it costs them about 1,000 per month per American per account.
Annie Sargent: Wow, didn’t realize it was that much.
Stephen Heiner: I know I don’t make BNP Paribas 12,000 euros a year…
Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Heiner: … in revenue, but it means that other Americans are carrying their weight a lot more than me in order for them to be so kind to… I have two accounts with BNP. I started with Société Générale. I don’t like them. I can get on a horse about how much I don’t like them sometime, but I want to sing the praises of BNP. Um, Molli, you’re with Crédit Agricole?
Molli Sebrier: I’m with Crédit Agricole, and it’s the bank that I’ve had since I was an au pair, and that’s another just kind of side note. I was able to open that account very easily because my host dad was with me.
Any sort of administrative task in France, if you have access to a French person to go to these meetings with you, [00:33:00] you will have a much, much, much better experience and much better result.
Annie Sargent: Absolutely, yeah. When we opened our bank account, and I am French, but we, when we opened our bank account, the first one, I had an old bank account with some bank, but I didn’t want to use that. And so we opened a new bank account with Crédit Agricole locally, but I had my brother-in-law, who had a, a business. He us- He’s a car sales guy. So he took us to his banker, who takes care of loans for his business and so forth, and it was quite easy for us because, um, and of course I’m French, too. Um, but,
But he knew more of the intricacies of the money, because we had just sold a house in the US, and so we needed to transfer money. I wanted to keep it in dollars because I thought the dollar would um, go up again, and it never did. We lost. We lost. But anyway, um, it just, you know, you have, you need a bank account.
And I think Crédit Agricole, at least in the southwest, they actually have people. You can actually meet with people in an office who um, go after uh, international um, [00:34:00] accounts, so, and they’re English speakers. So that’s worth trying.
Molli Sebrier: I’ve had a great, great experience with them, and I was definitely, as an au pair, making 80 euros a week, was not earning that bank 12,000 euros per year.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, but back then there was no FATCA, so yeah.
Stephen Heiner: There’s, The article on our website, people use it in the comments section to talk about their banks, and so you’ll see all sorts of other recommendations.
LCL gets a lot of praise in our comments section for being friendly to, to Americans.
So, um, be insistent. It is a, technically a right of a French resident to have a French bank account, but they don’t want, they don’t want to deal with it, and so they’ll tell you, "No, no, we don’t do that. We don’t know."
And they just, they expect it. So you have to either, if you don’t have a French friend, be insistent. If you don’t have a French friend, get a French friend. I think this is part of the, the practical side of things. Is yeah… getting,
Having French friends means that you’re integrating into your life in France. That is an important thing. But the practical help is if you want to argue with EDF, if you want to argue with a bank and the, the French, [00:35:00] you’ll be, they’re very patient, and suddenly the French person will turn into an attack dog on your behalf, and you’re, you’re just happy to just sit back there and, and hear them use all sorts of words that you wouldn’t use. I didn’t say this. My, My French friend said this.
Annie Sargent: My friend is a jerk. I, I should say about the taxes, uh, we have found every time we’ve dealt with uh, French tax people, they have been very friendly. So, uh, don’t be intimidated by the French tax people. They are n- you know, They are not out to get you. They, They are helpful and friendly, at least the ones in the southwest. Uh, I don’t know about the rest of them, but the ones we’ve dealt with were, were very nice.
Stephen Heiner: I, I, I’ve not had any problems, and they’ve been incredibly efficient. Annie, I remember the, the, I alluded to those first two tax returns I did. They sent me a bill, and I, I, I wrote back and I said, "I, "I told you I didn’t earn any income in France. This is non-taxable income." My accountant was telling me, "Stephen, be assertive." So I wrote back in French and I said, "This is not taxable." And they, And they wrote back and they said, "Oh, right. It’s actually, it’s only this much." And I said… I wrote back and I said, "No, it’s zero. You owe- I owe [00:36:00] you zero." And they wrote back and they said, "Oh yes, you’re right, zero."
Annie Sargent: You have to fight.
Stephen Heiner: Yeah. And, and, And any French person will tell you this story, just you, you have to understand the narrative of whatever it is that you’re arguing about. So if you make that case, and, and there’s been times when I got money back that I didn’t know. I think I paid, I paid for, um…
There was a tax that they abolished uh, recently about uh, tax d’habitation. And I remember paying it, and then I just got a refund, and I got a letter saying, "Oh, sir, you paid this, but you don’t owe this." And I remember taking a picture and sending it to people. I said, "This is one of the few times the French government is just going to return money to me without my asking. I need to frame this somewhere." And, um-
They’re very efficient. Um, And, uh, I mean, there’s a lot to be said. I don’t think the, the French tax, French tax authorities, they don’t make tax policy. I think one of the challenges that France has these days is the answer to every budget shortfall is to increase taxes, and I don’t think that that’s the answer. Um, But these people are not in, these people are not in charge of that. They’re just in charge of implementing the law. And as you say, they’ve always been very efficient.
I mean, Molli might have her own horror stories, or Pierre, her husband, might have some horror stories. But I’ve, I’ve only had good stuff with the, the Ministère [00:37:00] des Finances.
Molli Sebrier: Honestly, my, my mother-in-law is my… So my French mother-in-law is just so on the, to the book with everything. So she often calls the French authorities to make sure she’s filling out her tax returns correctly, and she says the same thing, so they’re, they’re always very, very nice, and has had zero problems. And she’s in the Paris area, so.
Annie Sargent: Right.
Avoiding Visa Loopholes
Annie Sargent: One piece of advice that I would give people is, for the love of God, do not go on Facebook, uh, e- explaining all of your plans to uh, uh, to g- get around the French system and uh, be here as a tourist when you’re not really… Just shut up. You… They will search for your Facebook account. You know, it takes five seconds anymore. So just, mm-mm. The… That’s private shit. Like, do not share that.
Molli Sebrier: Interestingly enough, we, I got a, a, a private message on TikTok actually, so it’s also happening on TikTok. And this girl, she was just trying to find this loophole around, like, the 180-day rule. And she’s like, "Well, if I just only stay for 180 days and then, like, I go to England for some, a certain amount of [00:38:00] time, or then I’ll go back to America, and then I’ll come back, and I’ll go back and forth, and I’ll do this thing."
And I was like, "I’m going to stop you right now. You’re going to drive yourself crazy. Just come up with a plan and apply for a visa." Like she… And I think she must be influenced by people that she reads in these Facebook groups, where they’re trying to find all of these loopholes, where I don’t want to pay taxes, or I don’t want to apply for a visa, and I don’t want to go through the démarche of actually being a resident of France. And I think that that is just ridiculous. It’s insane.
Annie Sargent: I understand that it’s intimidating, I get that. Because when we moved here, that’s one of the things that drove my husband crazy, is that he, he… I mean, and, and it, really, we had it easy. I mean, I’m French. We have been, We had been married at the time already 15 years or something. And, um, And he had a CDI right off the bat. So his employer in the US transferred him to Paris with a CDI. And so, like, you know, what could possibly go wrong? But still, he was very nervous, and he, he, he would be like every step of the way, he, uh, like about getting [00:39:00] our carte vitale, uh, oh, that, he was so nervous about this.
So I went to the, I went to Social Security, the office near our home, uh, and I talked to them. And, you know, I understood all of the words, but none of the meaning. Like- … I was like, "I have no idea what you’re talking about." Mm. Uh, So I told my husband, "Okay, you have to call them and exaggerate your accent, because then they will…" Because, I kept telling him, "I haven’t lived in this country for…" You know, it had been 20 years. "I don’t know what you’re talking about." And even when I lived in France as a young adult, my mom took care of shit for me, like, you know. Uh, so, uh, and so, So it was kind of, it was a problem. And so I, He actually uh, went and exaggerated his accent, and they explained a little bit better. Uh, So yeah, you kind of have to play the, the, the foreigner thing as well. But they will explain if you eventually go- get to it.
Housing And Renting Tips
Annie Sargent: I, I think it’s really important for people to get a bank account, first of all, bank… well, of course, they need somewhere to live, yeah? And you can secure that with uh, a long-term rental, an Airbnb perhaps.
Stephen Heiner: And it’s a completely different game in Paris than anywhere else, Annie. I’m sure you know.
Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah. It’s difficult. [00:40:00] Securing an apart- an apartment is difficult. And again, if you have a French friend who can sign their life away, uh, saying that, you know, you will honor this debt, uh, if whoever is not, uh, then yeah, you’re, you’re gold.
But now- nowadays, there are insurance companies that y- you pay a premium, and they insure you to, to say, "Yes, we will step in."
Stephen Heiner: Garante Me and other-
Annie Sargent: Yeah, Garante Me is one of them, yeah. Uh, So that’s helpful. That’s easy.
Vacation Vs Expat Life
Stephen Heiner: Annie, I want to come back to, again, the original line of questioning you started with, because you alluded to some of the people who listen to the podcast or some of the people you know are older, and we get all kinds.
But the, the situation is still the same, whether you’re older or you’re younger, you’re going to find these articles from CNN or other things that people said, "You know, I came to France for, you know, with all my hopes and dreams, and I’m leaving, you know, 11 months later," or something like this. And,
And you’ll hear something like, "I spoke no French, and I moved to Arles with my dog."
I thought, you, you, you moved to Arles and you speak no French, and you’re in your [00:41:00] 60s and you don’t want to learn? Or, you know, other people, they, their assumptions were all wrong about, about this. And, And I think that’s the issue is, if you’re thinking this is an extended vacation, relocation and expatriation is not that.
If you want a long vacation, take a long vacation. But if you want to deal with the fact that stores are closed at a certain time, or that the French are difficult to get close to, but once you get close to them, you’re in, but you’re going to have to put in that time. Uh, if you,
If you are really tied to your friends and family, you’re going to have to be okay with the fact that you’re not going to be near your friends and family, that there’s a number of checkboxes that vary for different people, for different stages of their life and, and where they are. It’s not for everyone.
But what I want to applaud people for always is trying. So if you come and you do it and you’re prepared, and even after a year or two, and you say, "You know what? I, I love it, but this isn’t for me long-term," for me still, it’s incredible that you did something and fou- and [00:42:00] found out. You didn’t just what if your way through life.
Annie Sargent: Yes.
Making French Friends
Annie Sargent: And, you know, one of the, the two things you need to do to make a acquaintance with French people is, number one, ask them for help. Knock on the door of whoever’s around you and ask them for a couple of eggs because you really need to make some crepe, and you’re short a couple of eggs. And then the next day you go with a dozen eggs and you say, "Thank you so much." If the person says, "Oh, no, I don’t have any eggs. Go away," well, that’s, that’s just how they’re going to be, you know? Uh, But that’s pretty rare.
Most people will um, approach it nicer than that. And, And then probably they’re going to go, especially if you speak some French, you know, they’ll be like, "Oh, okay, so you’re new. Nice," whatever. Um, So that’s one thing.
And the second thing is join associations. Uh, We record this in uh, September. You have to join associations. I think even in Paris you should do this because, uh, if you like, I don’t know, you like tap dancing, let me tell you, one day I was walking my dog in my village in the southwest of France, and there you have, like, 100 French people tap dancing to American [00:43:00] music. It was a club that was doing a thing. They… If I had known how to tap dance, they would have been my best besties forever. You know, I don’t know that, so I didn’t, but… um,
But there are French people who are very interested in American things, and they, they would love to meet you. Or, I don’t know, you’re into theater, you’re into singing, you’re into bice- bicycling, you’re, whatever. Whatever it is, join an association because you will have… You will sign the bylaws, you will pay your 150 euros or whatever. It’s not expensive. Usually it’s, like, for the year, it’s about 150 most places. Um, And you will meet all sorts of people. And so that’s, That’s a good way to integrate, because I think people don’t think it through that much, but loneliness will get you.
Molli Sebrier: Yes. And I think it, you really need to have that willingness to be open and to join these sorts of groups. Like, I think f- of all ages, you kind of have this assumption, "Well, I’ll just meet a friend at a restaurant, or at a bar, or, or through another person, or just walking down the street." But you do have to make an effort, and you have to put yourself in these situations, like you say, with people who have common interests that you have.
And I think that’s another [00:44:00] part of what you need to have if you want to make a go at, like, a true go at this, is you need to have, be very open-minded, you need to be willing to embarrass yourself if you have to, and you need to be very, very flexible.
I think that’s what a lot of Americans have a hard time with. They expect to go anywhere in the world and to have life be exactly like it is in America, and that’s just not how it’s going to be.
And like Stephen says, if you want to take a long vacation, take a long vacation. You don’t have to live in this place if you enjoy this place, if you’re not willing to be open-minded, if you’re not willing to put yourself out there, and if you’re not willing to be flexible and be okay with maybe someone slamming the door in your face and saying, "No, I don’t have any eggs." And, you know, knock on the next door and asking the same question, you know?
Annie Sargent: Yeah. I-it’s, It’s unlikely, but it could happen. So I… And I think you need to be prepared also for a lot of uncertainty because they tell you, "Oh, you’re going to get your carte vitale in, I don’t know, six weeks or whatever," and it’s, you know, nine months and you s- yeah, and you [00:45:00] don’t have it, and you’re like, "Oh, no, I’ve been denied." Oh, don’t worry about it. Like, if they, If they read the emails they sent you or the papers they sent you, if there’s a way for you to check, check, but just be patient. Things take forever in France. If you need a plumber to come fix something, the guy’s not going to give, come give you a bid for another couple of weeks.
Stephen Heiner: I agree, Annie, but I will say post-COVID, things have so much more dematerialized, as they would say in France. There’s so many more digital ways. There’s Doctolib, for example. Who would have thought of Doctolib, you know, 10 years ago? So for people who don’t know, it’s an app site, it’s an app website that allows you to make appointments with French doctors without calling, maybe they’re at lunch, and the receptionist is sick and whatever. You have to call back. Life, Life is easier that way.
Learning French Fearlessly
Stephen Heiner: And so, uh, The other point I want to correlate with Molli, and I, I want to push back to Molli again because I think she, she made such a dramatic transformation, is that willingness to embarrass yourself extends to language. We, However old we are, we’re 20, 30, 40, 60, we’ve been used to being able to express ourselves well in our own language appropriate to our age. A [00:46:00] 40-year-old can express himself as a 40-year-old, a 60-year-old can express herself as a 60-year-old. But when you’re learning a language, you get to express yourself as a seven-year-old. And I always… You know, "What books are you reading in French?" And I would-
Annie Sargent: Or less.
Stephen Heiner: Right. You know, when people would ask, like, "What books are you reading in French?" And I would say something like, "Martine, Babar, Tintin." You know, these are my French literature books. I’m not reading…
Annie Sargent: I love it.
Stephen Heiner: I’m not reading Hugo or anything. And the point is that I would say there’s a line between afraid and not afraid. And afraid is, I’m going to get the grammar wrong, I’m going to get the pronunciation wrong, they’re going to look at me strange, they’re going to start speaking to me in English again. You have to cross that line.
For me, I went to a school out in the Alps called Alpine French School in Morzine. And we had classes in the morning and skiing in the afternoon.
Annie Sargent: Nice.
Stephen Heiner: And it was residential too, so you had the opportunity to just keep speaking with your colleagues all day.
Now, there was definitely some tiredness after hours and hours of speaking it, so we would maybe switch back to English, but the point is that you had this great opportunity, and I’ll, I’ll let Molli [00:47:00] talk about how she also got o- over that line of afraid, not afraid.
Molli’s Immersion Breakthrough
Molli Sebrier: I really had to force myself. I really had to put myself in a position where I had no choice because when I went over to France, I, I knew nothing. Like, very, very, very basic. I could maybe order a coffee i- in a cafe.
And because I was working as a nanny, a part of my role was to teach English to the children, so it was this unspoken thing like, "Molli, don’t speak in French with the kids." I couldn’t, I couldn’t if I had tried, but it was this sort of rule that I had. And so that didn’t encourage me to learn. And I was also, in the very beginning, in a place like Paris, it’s very easy to surround yourself with other Anglophones. I was with other English yeah… nannies, other English-speaking students.
And even Paris as a whole, you can get around. I know people who have lived in Paris for 30 years, and they speak very basic French. And-
Annie Sargent: I know people who’ve done that in Toulouse.
Molli Sebrier: It’s easy to do because more and more people speak English, and you can really get by. And, And there are these pockets of expats kind of all over France, and you can find, you know, [00:48:00] your people in that way.
And But when I did come to that crossroad of, okay, I w- I want to actually integrate and make a life for myself here and learn French, I put myself in an intensive French program. It was 25 hours a week, and it was just… I’m- I stumbled across this program, and I’m so glad I did. I remember on the very first day, the teacher came in, and she said, in French, "If I catch you speaking any other language other than French, I’m going to kick you out of my classroom." And she was really serious about it, really, really serious about it. And-
Annie Sargent: Dang, she was strict.
Molli Sebrier: Yeah, she was. Sort of luckily, I happened to be the only Anglophone in my class, so even if I wanted to speak in English, no one would… I didn’t have that common language with people. And so putting myself in that room where I knew that everyone had the same lang- level as I did, everyone had the same terrible accent that I did, that freedom I felt in that room to make mistakes, to "embarrass myself," even though it wasn’t embarrassing at this point because everyone is at the same level as I was. A few months in that environment gave me the confidence to be more comfortable when I was [00:49:00] outside of that classroom to actually try to make mistakes. And-
Annie Sargent: Yeah, that’s really important.
Molli Sebrier: It’s so important!
Older Learners And Retirement
Molli Sebrier: And, And interestingly enough, you know, I, I did come over in my 20s, but most of the people we consult with are not in their 20s. You know, they’re in their 40s and up, I would say. And that’s… It’s still an option to come to France as a student and take an intensive French program. And there were people my, in m- even in my intensive program, it wasn’t only 20-year-olds. There were people of all ages in my program.
Annie Sargent: I’m going to be interviewing somebody who, d- I can’t remember the name of her services, but it’s something about uh, French after 50 or something like that, and she specifically helps people who have a hard time getting over that difficult fear of French.
And I have to say, people are doing it. Like, we have good friends um, uh, from the US who have sold their house, their cars, everything, and they are now doing three months in France at a language school in Toulouse. And they do you know, four hours a day.
Stephen Heiner: Oh, they’re going to come out awesome. They’re going to come out awesome.
Annie Sargent: Right. Right. And then they’ll go [00:50:00] back to the US and then… Because he’s also looking for a job. Well, either one of them, but he’s m- he’s techy, so he’s more likely to find one. Uh, you know, they, they’re looking. They’re not retired yet. That’s the thing. When you’re retired, it’s probably po- possibly a little bit easier because you have the income coming in already. It’s easier to prove your income, right?
Stephen Heiner: Yes, and there’s not the same uh, language requirements for either the carte de résident or citizenship for language for elder people, so over 65, than there is for people under 65. The French government, French government doesn’t have the same expectation of an older person learning a language, uh, than it does of a young person.
Annie Sargent: Wonderful. Okay.
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Resources And Farewell
Annie Sargent: Guys, we’ve been talking a very long time, so we need to stop, but it’s been really, really fascinating, and I’m so glad that you’re helping people do this because… So again, uh, tell us, so re- remind us of your websites. Um, American in Paris?
Stephen Heiner: Theamericaninparis.com.
Annie Sargent: The American in Paris.
Molli Sebrier: The American in Paris, yes.
Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Stephen Heiner: And there’s also 29days.io. You’ll [00:51:00] see the 29 Days, but it’s also, the book is also linked on The American in Paris website.
Annie Sargent: Okay. Okay. Yeah, and you c- I mean, I, I encourage people to avail themselves of your services because you can help them get over the hump. It does take some, some guts to do this uh, at any age, I think. And so if that’s really what you want to do, and there, there seems to be a lot of people who want to do this more uh, now than last year, for example. Um, uh, so m- But it’s doable. You, yeah, you, you, You should try it. You should try it.
Stephen Heiner: And Annie, I want to thank you as well. I don’t know if I, we talked about this, but I’m a longtime listener. Early on, um, I would reference your episodes to help with just understanding stuff. You know, I would look through the episode list and say, "Okay, well, this, this will help me understand this, this more," and just listen to it in the background, walk around Paris. Okay, hmm, that’s, that’s an answer that I d- didn’t know.
So I appreciate, I appreciate everything you’ve been doing over the years as well.
Annie Sargent: Thank you so much, Molli and Steven, and uh, uh, bonne continuation, as we say in French.
Stephen Heiner: Merci bien.
Molli Sebrier: Merci.
Annie Sargent: Merci. Au revoir.
Molli Sebrier: Au revoir.
[00:52:00]
Thank You Patrons
Annie Sargent: Again, I want to thank my wonderful patrons for giving back and supporting the show. Patrons get several exclusive rewards for doing that. You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
And a special shout-out this week to my new Join Us in France champion, Carole.
If you want to skip the ads, join the live Zooms, or even get a private consult with me, check out all the fun perks at patreon.com/joinus, starting at just $3 a month, and thank you for keeping the adventure alive.
And to support Elyse, go to patreon.com/elysart.
Le Déjeuner des Canotiers, Auguste Renoir
Annie Sargent: There’s a big art event coming up in Paris, and it’s genuinely a special one.
One of Auguste Renoir’s most famous paintings, Le Déjeuner des Canotiers, so [00:53:00] Luncheon of the Boating Party, is coming back to France after twenty years away. The painting will be on view at the Musée d’Orsay starting on March 17th, and the museum is calling this a dream come true.
The work usually lives in Washington, D.C. at the Phillips Collection, and it’s really rarely loaned. Renoir painted it between nine– Renoir painted it between 1880 and 1881. It shows a relaxed summer lunch at the Maison Fournaise in Chatou along the Seine. But about fifteen peoples, ugh, About fifteen people are gathered on a balcony, talking, flirting, laughing, enjoying food and wine.
It’s often described as the ideal image of society where different social classes mix easily and life just feels joyful.
For the curators at Orsay, this painting captures everything Renoir did best, light, movement, modern life, and pleasure.
[00:54:00] Seeing it in person matters, they say, because reproductions don’t do it justice to the colors and energy of the original.
The painting opens a double Renoir exhibition. The main show, Renoir and Love: A Happy Modernity, runs through July and includes major works like Bal du Moulin de la Galette.
At the same time, Orsay is also showing Renoir the draughtsman, Renoir the draughtsman, which, uh, with about a hundred drawings, watercolors, and pastels, many rarely seen.
So the bottom line is, if you’re in Paris this spring or early summer and you care even a little about impressionism, this is one exhibition that is truly worth making the, the effort, the time for.
Les Petits Gros
Annie Sargent: If you’re looking for a classic Parisian bistro that doesn’t cost a fortune, here’s one to know about. It’s called Les Petits Gros, and it’s on Avenue Trudaine in the 9th Arrondissement, [00:55:00] not far from Montmartre and Pigalle.
This is the kind of place that’s open from breakfast until 2 AM, which already tells you something. It’s a, a true neighborhood spot, early morning coffee, lunch crowd, after-work drinks, and late-night regulars all under the same roof.
There’s no fancy farm-to-table in five languages marketing here, just zinc counters, lively conversations, and that slightly chaotic but friendly Parisian energy.
The clientele is a mix, people who work nearby in production companies or theaters, locals, creatives, tourists who wander in. And apparently after a shared cheese or charcuterie boar… And apparently after a shared cheese or charcuterie board, everyone starts talking to each other. What makes it really interesting though is the price.
The lunch special is around 12 Euros. That’s really cheap. Uh, Add two euros and you can include a starter or a dessert. That’s amazing. On the regular menu, you’ll find things like roast chicken with homemade fries for about 15 [00:56:00] Euros, beef tartare for 16, or croque monsieur with fries and a salad for around 13.
In Paris, where lunch can easily hit twenty euros or more without drinks, that’s uh, really, uh, really refreshing and really an interesting price.
So this isn’t a destination restaurant with white tablecloths. It’s something better in its own way, a proper Parisian bistro where you can eat well, pay a really amazing price, and feel like you’re part of the neighborhood for an hour or two.
And honestly, those are often the best places.
But I must restate, this restaurant is neither posh or located in a posh area. Um, I tend to like such places, as I’m a proud daughter of a working class loving parents. To me, it feels like home, but uh, it won’t. if you tend to favor uh, Michelin-starred restaurants, it’s probably not for you.
My thanks to podcast editors Anne and Christian Cotovan, who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast
Annie Sargent: Next week on the podcast, an episode about Parisian desserts and other [00:57:00] delights with Alexandra Crapanzano. It’s the sort of book and stories that will make you salivate.
Thank you so much for listening, and I hope you join me next time so we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
Copyright
Annie Sargent: The join us in France Travel Podcast is written, hosted, and produced by Annie Sargent and copyright 2026 by Addicted to France. It is released a, It is released under a Creative Comments, attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives license.[00:58:00] [00:59:00]
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Episode PageCategory: Moving to France