Table of Contents for this Episode
Category: Lyon Area
Discussed in this Episode
- Savoie
- Haute-Savoie
- Courchevel
- Chambéry
- Albertville
- Moutiers
- Bozel
- Brides-les-Bains
- La Plagne
- Méribel
- Les Allues
- Saint-Martin-de-Belleville
- Bonneval-sur-Arc
- Conflans
- Beaufort
- Bauges Valley
- Grenoble
- Lyon
- National Park of the Vanoise
- Iseran Pass
- Place de la République (Paris)
[00:00:15] Introduction and Greetings
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[00:00:15] Annie: This is Join Us in France, Episode 544, cinq cent quarante-quatre.
Bonjour, I’m Annie Sargent and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take a conversational journey through the beauty, culture, and flavors of France.
[00:00:31] Today on the podcast
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[00:00:31] Annie: Today, I bring you a conversation with Elyse Rivin of Toulouse Guided Walks about the hidden gems of the Savoie department in France, which are about the unique history, breathtaking landscapes, and charming villages that make this department a year-round attraction.
This episode has something for ski enthusiasts, hikers, or anyone who loves French culture and cuisine. We’ll share our own experiences, and it’s possible that you’ll want to pack your bags and explore the Savoie department yourself.
[00:01:07] Podcast supporters
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[00:01:07] Annie: This podcast is supported by donors and listeners who buy my tours and services, including my Itinerary Consult Service, my GPS self-guided tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app, or take a day trip with me around the Southwest of France in my electric car. You can browse all of that in my boutique, joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And remember, Patreon supporters get the podcast ad-free as soon as it’s ready. Click on the link in the show notes to enjoy this Patreon reward for as little as $3 per month.
[00:01:40] The Magazine segment
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[00:01:40] Annie: For the Magazine part of the podcast, after my chat with Elyse today, I’ll discuss train and road work that happen every summer and that you need to know about, and also about the Place de la République in Paris, and whether it’s a good area for you to stay.
[00:02:07] Annie and Elyse about History of Savoie and Haute-Savoie
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[00:02:07] Annie: Bonjour, Elyse.
[00:02:09] Elyse: Bonjour, Annie.
[00:02:10] Annie: Today we are going to talk about the Savoie department in France, a place that you know well because you go very often. And you were just pointing out to me that the Savoie is not the same as the Haute-Savoie. So let’s start there.
[00:02:25] Elyse: Yeah, let’s start there. Well, there’s the, this part of France that is basically the strip, that’s the eastern strip, that’s the Alps, that used to be a separate kingdom called the Kingdom of Savoie, or Savoy. And it, in fact, for centuries, it was a separate kingdom, and to make a very long story very, very short, it was annexed to Italy, and then at the end of the 19th century, and this smacks of things that are going on in the world right now, there was a deal made between France and Italy, and it became part of France.
[00:02:59] Annie: Welcome to France.
[00:03:00] Geography and Key Locations
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[00:03:00] Elyse: Welcome to France. You know? And for, of course, a very, very long time, and my guess is still in tiny little villages really hidden away in the deep valleys will speak a dialect, that’s the Savoy dialect, which is something halfway between Italian and French. I’ve never heard it spoken. I’m sure that there are still people who do. But anyway, of course, by that time, there were departments thanks to Napoleon, we had departments everywhere in France, and because it’s such a huge region, they divided it up into three departments, actually.
So there’s the Haute-Savoie, which means it’s the northernmost part, which is actually where Mont Blanc is situated, which, of course, is the highest in Europe, it’sover 14,000 feet. And then you have the Savoie, which is just immediately south. They chunk… you know, they made a line through the valleys, however they did that, in the Savoie.
And then you have the Alpes de Haute-Provence, which is the southernmost part. So it’s basically this long, long stretch, which is a big chunk of France if you take a look at the map. And I know the one in the middle the most because I have a stepson and his family who live in one of the hamlets of Courchevel, which is a very famous, very, very, very ritzy ski station, and it’s dead center in the department. We’ve done some visiting of the valleys and the region around there.
And because I’m not a snow ski person at all, we go in the spring or in the summer or in the fall, before the snows fall, so that’s, of course, when I like it, because it is absolutely beautiful.
[00:04:35] Annie: Right, but it’s beautiful any time of year, really. It’s just that if you ski, then you would want to go in the winter.
[00:04:42] Skiing in Savoie: Resorts and Activities
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[00:04:42] Elyse: Absolutely.
[00:04:43] Annie: Courchevel is obviously a very famous, very popular ski resort. So yeah, lots to do in the area.
[00:04:51] Elyse: Very, very popular. What’s interesting about this chunk called the Savoie, as opposed to the Haute-Savoie… Now, the Haute-Savoie, just for people who might have not been to any of this part of France, but who have heard of certain things, the Haute-Savoie is basically where you go if you want to visit and climb Mont Blanc, or if you want to visit Chamonix. The local people call it Chamonix and Chamonix.
So this is… a bit south of there, but it’s a region that’s fabulous, and of course, it is a major, major ski area. Most of what I have to talk about, and what we really set up to talk about is not during ski time. And it turns out that in the Department of the Savoie, there is the largest ski domain in Western Europe, and it’s called the Three Valleys.
[00:05:38] Annie: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:38] Elyse: There are three separate ski stations called Les Arcs, Tignes, and Méribel, and you can literally, if you’re a good skier, go from one to the other. There are over 600 kilometers of ski runs, and you can work your way up and down and in and out and wherever.
And those are the ones that attract the most people, because they’re huge, and they have basically something for everybody. You don’t have to be super rich, like in Courchevel, it’s basically really for the rich.
[00:06:11] Recent Events and News
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[00:06:19] Elyse: So just an anecdote, because I’m not sure if you’re paying attention to this, but last week, there was a huge rock slide on the road that is right where there’s this small city called Moutiers, which I know very well, because it’s the road we take to get to the family house. I’ve gone shopping there, I’ve gone to the outdoor markets there and everything, and it’s in this very narrow valley. When you come up from Grenoble, you take this big, big highway, and you can come from Albertville, or you can come from Chambéry, or you can come from Grenoble. All of those three main cities meet in this area to go to Three Valleys.
And so there was this huge rock slide that closed off the road, and there was a backup of cars for over 100 kilometers. And the pompiers, the firemen, and the local police had to come and save people, including families, because it’s been snowing a lot.
So they were stuck in their cars because of this rock slide, and they had to find places that were like emergency places for people to spend two nights.
It took two nights and two days for them to clear out the rocks. So this was the big news on the television all the time because they kept idiots going and interviewing these people, asking them how they feel about being stuck on those roads, you know.
But literally… it’s… I mean, how do you feel about being stuck on the road when you’re going away for your winter holiday, you know, you’re in this car? But it is the road, there are other small roads that go into these valleys, but this was the major road that literally branches off at Moutiers and goes into all of these three valleys. Because skiing is such a big part of the economy in this region,it was of course a big deal.
But unfortunately, a rock slide is a thing that you can’t predict ahead of time, you know, so…
[00:07:58] Upcoming 2030 Winter Olympics
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[00:07:58] Annie: Yeah, it’s huge. And speaking of news things, the Olympic Games, the 2030 Winter Games are going to be in this area of the French Alps, and they will do events at Méribel, one of the stations that you just mentioned.
[00:08:17] Elyse: Right.
[00:08:18] Annie: There will be La Plagne as well, Courchevel.
[00:08:21] Elyse: Right.
[00:08:22] Annie: And Bozel is where the Village Olympique is going to be.
[00:08:26] Elyse: Yes, and that is where my family lives, basically. They live in a hamlet. My step-grandson goes to junior high school in Bozel. It’s gorgeous. It’s a tiny little village.
I don’t like narrow, deep valleys that… where you feel closed in, but this part of the Alps is splendid any time of year. They are very lucky becausethe demand for housing is going to be unbelievable in this area, and they have their own house, and they also have an apartment for rent. And so it’s going to be very interesting because they’re predicting that, of course, the price of real estate is going to go sky-high, you know, as a…
[00:09:01] Annie: Right, right.
[00:09:02] Elyse: What I’m just hoping is that they don’t ruin the landscape, in the sense that it’s a very pretty village with very typical houses with lots of wood and wooden balconies, you know, all the beautiful things that you can do in the Alps, and this very nice lake and a very nice view everywhere. So I’m hoping that they don’t do anything like high-rise buildings or anything that will ruin the whole atmosphere of the place.
[00:09:27] Annie: Right. So this area has had Olympic Winter Games before. We’ve had the Grenoble in 1968.
[00:09:36] Elyse: Yes.
[00:09:38] Annie: And then Albertville 1992.
[00:09:41] Elyse: That’s correct.
[00:09:42] Annie: That’s the sort of place it is. It’s Winter Olympics kind of place.
[00:09:45] Elyse: It’s a Winter Olympics kind of place. It really is. Amazingly,I was just back on, looking at some statistics, the department is 90% mountain, so…
[00:09:56] Annie: Wow.
[00:09:56] Elyse: It gives you an idea. Well, you know, when they say mountain, of course, that includes the valleys, because, you can’t just be floating around on the top like the eagles, you know, floating from one, mountain peak to the other.
But it is a region that is basically, there’s a slight flat part where you come out of Grenoble, or you come out of Albertville which is basically on the way. And then you suddenly rise up, and you can see the mountains all around you, to the north, to the east, and then, of course, going to the south if you turn your head back the other way.
And it’s mostly snow-covered mountains. There are such high mountains that even in the summertime, you still have snow all the way up on top. But it’s an area that is wonderful for anything outdoors all year long, and that is, I think, one of the reasons why it would be fun, it’s just really fun to talk about.
[00:10:45] Travel Tips and Transportation
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[00:10:49] Elyse: The biggest city in the department is Chambéry, which is not that big compared to some other parts of France. It’s, I think 70,000 people,at most.
It used to be, in fact, the capital of the Kingdom of Savoy, so there is a palace that you can actually visit, althoughit’s not as fancy as some other places, but it’s kind of fun to visit it and to get an idea of what it was like at the time. There’s a tiny little old section that you can walk through with some medieval houses that’s very, very charming.
And basically, it becomes the gateway, there’s the train you can take it, that you can come up from the south. You can take a train from Lyon. It’s got a very big train station because it’s very important, and from there, I know a lot of people, they either rent a car or they… you can take a bus, or you can even take a small choo-choo train that takes you all the way up to Moutiers, you know. And basically, Moutiers is pretty much where everything stops. You can see that it’s this kind of strange valley that goes off in sort of in three different directions.
[00:11:49] Winter Tires for the car in the mountain area in winter months
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[00:11:49] Annie: I should add briefly that, if you are going to go in this area, this is a question somebody asked me recently, if you are going to rent a car and drive in this part of the country, winter tires are mandatory, and you may need chains, depending on whether it… you have fresh snow or not.
If you’re planning to rent a car, make sure you let them know that you need winter tires to any mountainous areas in France. Winter tires are mandatory.
For instance, when I go to Spain, from Toulouse to Barcelona, normally, I take the mountain roads but in the winter, I don’t. Because I don’t want to put winter tires on my car just to go through that little you know, chunk of road in the Pyrenees. But if that’s where you’re going, then you will need winter tires.
[00:12:41] Elyse: Yes, and in the last couple of years, they’ve started doing controls on the roads where they stop, because I know, my stepson, he’s a ski monitor, and so of course he lives in the midst of all this all the time, and they have two cars.
But they said, “Yeah, now it’s, that’s it. They’re really controlling, everybody has to have snow tires and, you have to have winter tires. And then eventually, if it’s really, really bad and really deep, you even need to put chains on. But they will stop you.
I have no idea honestly, my guess is that car rental companies in this area know that, but it’s very good to make sure, before you take the car out, you know?
[00:13:18] Annie: Definitely.
[00:13:18] Elyse: We’ve gone to this area, just to give people an idea because, people who might want to visit the Alps, and it’s such a beautiful, beautiful area to spend some time. And you can come up from the South, from the Marseille area, you can come from Lyon which is just to northwest a little bit, you can come from Paris, you can come from where we are, of course, which is from Toulouse.
You can go by car, you can go by train, or you can actually fly to Lyon. And in Lyon, what a lot of people do is they fly to Lyon and then they rent a car, if you’re coming from far away. So there is access knowing that in the winter, of course, once you get beyond a certain point, really, you have to have a car. But in the summertime, there are buses, even tour buses that go up into some of these big, big valleys. It just is a lot, you know, nicer if you can have a car rental and stop where you want to, you know, along the way.
[00:14:09] Annie: Yeah, well, it’s rural. I mean, you know, as soon as you leave the big cities, it’s rural, so you need a way to get around.
[00:14:15] Elyse: Absolutely.
[00:14:16] Local Culture and Traditions
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[00:14:19] Elyse: So you know, I mean, basically this is an area where, when you know that the biggest city is Chambéry, the second-biggest is Albertville, which is not very big, it’s about 30,000 people.
And then you have these small towns like Moutier, which are really small, except that they don’t seem that small because they have all of the activities, all of the commercial activities, all of the… They have movie theaters, you know, theater, all of these activities that are, because they become sort of centers that attract people. Then there’sBrides-les-Bains, there are two or three small towns very close by that have thermal baths, and lots of people go to those places for cures. Brides-les-Bains, which is just above Moutier, is known for being a place that people go if they want to deal with rheumatism or if they want to try to lose weight.
[00:15:07] Annie: Right, right. Les cures, les cures.
[00:15:10] Elyse: Les cures, right.
[00:15:10] Annie: That’s very French.
[00:15:12] Elyse: It’s very, very French.
[00:15:13] French Tradition of Social Security Health Care
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[00:15:13] Annie: Perhaps I should explain. French healthcare has had a long tradition of letting people go to these places for a couple of weeks to help them get better control of their weight or of their diabetes or of their rheumatism or…
And it’s usually reimbursed by social security, which is our, it’s not our retirement stuff. Social security in France means medical healthcare.
So people, especially in years past where it was even more generous than it is now, people would easily go, like every year, they would go to the mountains to spend a week or two, to be, you know, taught good practices and to go do thermal baths and do treatments and do some physiotherapy or kinésithérapie, as we call it in French, things like that. And it’s kind of old, when you say you go to a cure, it sounds like you’re an old person, but you know what? They still do it, like they still offer it.
[00:16:19] Elyse: They still.
[00:16:20] Annie: Yeah. It’s a normal kind of part of French life.
[00:16:24] Elyse: And if I understand correctly, now to be completely reimbursed, it has to be for a full three weeks, which is a long time, you know. A long time to… I think, a lot of people, especially there are lots of places you could do this also here in the Pyrenees, I think a lot of times people do it because they just want to get away for three weeks, you know, and just…
[00:16:44] Annie: Right, yeah. And also they’re going to have classes about good practices to manage their disease, if they’re going to lose weight, they’re going to be… It’s like boot camp, like it’s fat camp, man.
[00:16:58] Elyse: It’s, absolutely, absolutely. You get very hungry, very fast, you know?
[00:17:03] Annie: Yes. I’ve been offered fat camp before and declined. Yeah.
[00:17:10] Elyse: I actually did a, just a thermal weekend with my mom a bunch of years ago in Luchon, which is the closest station we have here to Toulouse. They kind of whip you up with this, these water hoses and put you in these mud baths and things like that. It’s a whole interesting experience. Maybe we should do another podcast about…
[00:17:25] Annie: Yes.
[00:17:26] Elyse: … thermal baths one day. You know, it’s just, it’s a total other world, you know.
[00:17:30] Annie: No, you’re going to make me go. I don’t want to go. You go. I’m not going to those things.
[00:17:37] Elyse: Anyway, so, but you know, there’s so much to do in this area.
[00:17:41] Distances from the Savoie Department to Various Locations in France
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[00:17:41] Elyse: So just to give an idea of distances, because we’re talking about this. Basically it’s 520 kilometers from Paris. It’s 87 kilometers from Lyon, which is nothing. It’s like 50 miles. It’s 85 kilometers from Geneva, because you can take the road from Switzerland, because this borders on Italy and it borders on Switzerland to the east. It’s 330 kilometers from Marseille. And it’s 45 kilometers from Grenoble, which means that it’s like not even an hour away from Grenoble. It’s really very, very close by.
[00:18:12] Annie: Right, and the nearest TGV goes to Chambery.
[00:18:16] Elyse: Chambery. There’s actually… I’ve done the TGV several times to go there. It’s very strange because it, there’s a switch at Valence if you’re coming up from the south for some reason. I don’t know why.
And then it goes, they make you often change trains in Valence and then it goes to Chamberry. Or I think it’s because one goes to Chamberry and one goes to Lyon. I think that’s maybe why, but…
[00:18:38] Annie: Oh, okay.
[00:18:38] Elyse: But yes, yeah, yeah. There’s some kind of switch on the line.
But yes, the train system is relatively good until you get the beginning of the valleys that really go up into the mountains and then, of course, it changes everything.
But it is an area that the average altitude is 1,500 meters, which is over 4,000 feet. It’s healthy. It’s an area where the air is clean, obviously. It gets rain, it gets snow. As opposed to the Haute Savoie, the highest peak is the Grande Casse, which is 3,855 meters, which I calculated as 12,300 and something feet.
[00:19:20] Annie: Mm-hmm. It’s pretty high.
[00:19:22] Elyse: It’s pretty high, and generally speaking, the average altitude is about 900 meters, which means that you’re in healthy air. Even in the summer when it can get very, very hot during the day, it always is nice and cool, not necessarily cold, but cool in the evening. It’s not at all a place where you swelter at night, no matter what.
[00:19:44] Annie: Right, but in the winter, Grenoble can have inversions, so bad air due to inversions, like any mountain areas, they’re prone to that.
[00:19:55] Elyse: They’re prone to that, absolutely.
So knowing that, in the wintertime, we have all of these ski stations. You have many, many of them. Aside from this famous Three Valleys, there are others.
And most of these areas have now started to convert so that once the ski season is over, they have other activities to bring people in, in the springtime and in the summer.
[00:20:20] Annie: Right, yeah.
[00:20:21] National Parks and Summertime Activities
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[00:20:21] Elyse: One of the things that they’ve been doing is almost all of these places have wonderful aqua parks, indoor/outdoor swimming pools, where you have lots of activities. They have skating rinks.
And it’s filled with lakes. This is the area that’s filled with lakes and it’s filled with hiking trails, with Grandes Randonnées and with national parks.
So you have the National Park of the Vanoise, which is the one that I know the best and which is just absolutely splendid with many big, huge valleys, and the trails are very well marked. There are Auberge and little… in some of them, you have in the valley, you have places where you can eat, but you also have places where you can stay. You have to reserve ahead of time, because most of these places fill up. A lot of people will rent out a room, but some of them, particularly in the Vanoise, this is a huge area.
And it’s an area that has brought in more and more people in the summertime for doing hiking and for picnicking and for rowing on the lakes.
Some people might wonder whether there are lots of wild animals, because in the United States at least, you know, if you go into the big national parks, you have to worry about big, big animals.
In this area, actually, have been some sightings of wolves because they’ve been coming… They’re Italian wolves. They actually speak Italian. They come over across the mountains, they’re probably tired of eating Italian, whatever it is that they eat over there, but of course there in certain areas like the Vercours, which is a very, very mountainous area a little further south where there are lots of sheep herds, you know, that’s the reason that they’re pretty much trapped.
[00:21:58] Annie: That’s what the wolves are after.
[00:22:01] Elyse: That’s what they’re after. You know, so there’s a lot of controversy, of course, about things like that. But in general, there are no predatory animals of a big size, you know, that you have to worry about…
[00:22:12] Annie: Anymore.
[00:22:14] Elyse: … anymore.
[00:22:15] Annie: Yeah, it used to be plenty, but not anymore.
[00:22:17] Elyse: Yeah, there used to be plenty. Well, yeah, there used to be plenty, into the 19th century actually. Yes, there used to be plenty. So hiking is a wonderful thing to do and it’s very family oriented and family friendly.
And because this is France, you will find places along trails where you can stop. And the Champagny and the Vanoise when we go up into these valleys.
Of course, once you get high up, you no longer have this, but you can go in several miles on these trails, and then all of a sudden find the kind of little hut that serves coffee. This is the wonderful thing about France, you know?
[00:22:53] Find Experiences in the Area on Komoot
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[00:22:53] Annie: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And one great way to discover such wonderful hikes is to go to the Komoot site, K-O-M-O-O-T, and you enter Savoie or, I don’t know, Courchevel or whatever name you want to enter, and you can select hikes, bike rides, all sorts of activities and there are reviews, there are photos. It would tell you the elevation, the level of difficulty.
There will be reviews from people saying, “Oh, I did this with my kids. It’s fairly easy even with kids.” Of course, you can also find very difficult, very technical type of things. If you use the filtering, you’re going to find fabulous things to do in these areas. Some of them are loops, some of them are not, you know, all sorts of things. And we can’t possibly cover all of it, but Komoot is a very good resource to find experiences like that, and it’s totally free.
[00:23:54] Elyse: It sounds great. Yes.
(Mid-roll ad spot)
[00:23:57] Elyse: There are lots of people now who rent electric bikes because then you can go pretty high up into the valleys, you know, and these trails are really well taken care of.
Of course, there are lots of people who still just do hikes by foot, you know, you see people walking with their poles and with their little knapsack, you know, and things like that. It’s healthy, and it’s very, very, very beautiful.
And a couple of things, for instance, that are anecdotes, but it’s very interesting to know. So the last time we were there was at the end of September, beginning of October, there were still some wildflowers out. They have special wildflowers that come out that time of the year up in the mountains.
And at one point, we were walking along and I bent over. I was looking at a flower, and I heard somebody, wasn’t even a ranger, it was just somebody else who obviously does these parks and trails a lot, behind us yell out.
He scared the hell of me. He, “Don’t pick that flower! You’re not allowed to pick flowers in the park,” you know? So, people are very conscious of nature and ecology in these areas, you know? And at some point, we said, “Oh, we would like to find some blueberries.” And they said, “No, no, no, no, no. You can’t pick the blueberries.” “You have to go to places that are outside of the national parks,” and things like that.
And I thought, oh, that’s interesting, you know, there’s- it’s really a respect for nature that you get in an area like that.
[00:25:15] Annie: You have to leave them for the birds. They need it more than we do.
[00:25:19] Elyse: Yes. You have to leave them for the birds and the few other animals that, you know, you get foxes, and you have other nice little animals that are kind of fun. Marmot, if you ever get a chance to see them. They really do whistle, you know?
[00:25:33] Annie: Well, how do you say marmot in English?
[00:25:35] Elyse: I think it’s just an, I don’t know, because it’s another- it’s a first cousin of the prairie dog, so I’m not sure how you say marmot in English. I think it’s marmot. I think? No? Because it- prairie dog, a mountain prairie dog, that sounds silly to say, you know? They stand up on their hind legs and they give out this whistle that’s unbelievable, and it’s kind of like, “Everybody, go back in your hole.”
[00:25:58] Annie: Apparently, it is marmot.
[00:26:00] Elyse: It is marmot. Yeah.
[00:26:01] Annie: M-A-R-M-O-T.
[00:26:02] Elyse: Yeah, I’ve seen lots of them. They’re adorable, you know? They are. Actually, you know, it’s one of those things where it’s like, don’t try to feed them. They’re not supposed to be tamed, you know? They’re not supposed to come up to you.
[00:26:13] Annie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:26:14] Charming Villages and Scenic Beauty
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[00:26:15] Annie: There’s also some beautiful villages you can visit in this area.
[00:26:19] Elyse: Yes.
[00:26:20] Annie: So I’ve listed some of them. There’s one called Bonneval-sur-Arc.
[00:26:25] Elyse: Yes.
[00:26:25] Annie: It is one of the most beautiful villages of France, full-time population is about 250 to 300 residents. So it’s at 1,800 meters of altitude at the mouth of the Iseran Pass, which goes up to 9,000 feet. So this village was not bombed during World War II, so there are many traditional houses left, with thick stone walls and, you know, sometimes 80 centimeters thick, which is 32 inches just for the wall, the stone.
[00:26:58] Elyse: That’s the stone, right? Yeah.
[00:26:59] Annie: Yes. And they have roofs made of lauze which is flagstone.
[00:27:06] Elyse: Lauze is slate.
[00:27:07] Annie: Oh, it’s slate. Okay.
[00:27:09] Elyse: Yeah.
[00:27:09] Annie: There’s the medieval village above Albertville called Conflans.
[00:27:15] Elyse: Conflans.
[00:27:16] Annie: Yeah. There’s one Beaufort, which is famous for the cheese. We love that.
[00:27:23] Elyse: Love it. Love the village, love the cheese, and I love their- the cows. These are the special cows that produce the Beaufort cheese that you see usually wandering around in the Vanoise Park. They gather them up at various times of the year.
But if you go into two or three of the valleys, that you can have easy access to in the Vanoise, you see the herds, and there’ll be signs along the way saying, “These are the cows that produce the milk for Beaufort cheese.” You know?
[00:27:51] Annie: Yeah.
[00:27:52] Elyse: And sometimes, I’ve actually, at certain times of this year, you can see that they come with a portable equipment in these trucks to milk them there.
[00:28:05] Annie: Oh.
[00:28:05] The Tradition of the Transhumance
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[00:28:05] Elyse: So that they don’t have to take them back down, because this is an area of what they call the transhumance, which does not exist in the United States, you know?
[00:28:14] Annie: Right. So transhumance is when you take your herds, whether they be sheep or cows or, to higher pasture in the summer, and then you bring them back down in the winter to be in stables.
[00:28:29] Elyse: Right. Yeah.
[00:28:30] Annie: Yeah. And that’s usually a big deal. Like, you can see, in my village, we have a transhumance that goes by, it goes right by my house.
[00:28:38] Elyse: Right here? Really?
[00:28:40] Annie: Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:40] Elyse: Oh.
[00:28:40] Annie: You know, it’s more of a show, because for the longest time, they were moving the sheep using trucks, but now they are moving them, they’re walking them, and it’s an event.
But they have to block off the roads, they have to warn people ahead. People like me walk their dogs all the time. That day, the dogs are supposed to be on leash. You know, there’s things that they have to do. Because they go through towns with lots of inhabitants. Anyway, so yes, transhumance is a thing.
[00:29:09] Elyse: It’s a thing, and in the Alps and in the high Pyrenees, of course, it’s taken very seriously.
[00:29:14] Culinary Delights: Cheeses and More
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[00:29:15] Elyse: So one of the reasons why this is a region of wonderful cheeses is because of the summer milk. Summer milk, it means the high grasses from high up in the mountains.
So when you go to this area, which I mean, I’ve been there so many times, they have a cooperative for cheeses in all the different towns in the whole region. And you get all of the different varieties, the most famous being, of course, Beaufort and a couple of the others, like the Tomme de Bauges, which is very, very good.
Beaufort, I think, is the most well-known. But they will tell you, “This is the one made with summer milk. This is the one made with winter milk.” And you know, if you like cheese, it’s just like you just salivate just walking into these places, you know?
[00:29:55] Annie: Yeah, and Beaufort is actually in high demand. If you don’t know what it is, it’s like Comté, which is fairly easy to find. Comté is a high production kind of cheese. Beaufort is not produced in such large quantities, and so there’s plenty of times in the year where you can’t find it to buy.
[00:30:16] Elyse: Right.
[00:30:17] Annie: Whereas Comté, you can find Comté year round in France, and probably in the US as well.
[00:30:22] Elyse: They’re high densely, they’re pressed, what they call pressed cheeses, these huge round wheels. They’re pressed and very, very hard and very dense, and so they keep for a long time.
[00:30:33] Annie: Yes. And they are really, really delicious and very specific. It’s kind of a funny test to do if you want to taste French cheese. You buy some Comté and you buy some Beaufort, and you see if whoever’s with you can tell the difference between the two. It is slight, but it is a very important difference. I love Beaufort. I’m…
I love Beaufort too.
I wish I could find it all the time.
[00:30:56] Elyse: Yes. In fact, one of the things about going up there is that, because the price is so different from trying to get it in any place here, you know, even the best of the cheese places here, it’s literally half the price, and it’s an expensive, relatively expensive cheese. We usually get two or three huge pieces that are packed in a vacuum thing, and I will actually put a couple in the freezer, even though it changes the texture a little bit. But it’s like the idea of having all of that in the house just makes me feel so good, you know? But they have other cheeses that are actually delicious that come from there. And one of them, my husband loves, is this Tomme de Bauges, B-A-U-G-E-S, which is one of the other valleys that you have nearby that I actually have not visited. You can see the mountains of the Valley of the Bauges, as you go up towards Moutier and Courchevel. But it’s a delicious cheese that’s much closer to a Saint-Nectaire, so if, those of you out there who have an idea.
[00:31:51] Annie: Mm, it’s a softer cheese, then.
[00:31:53] Elyse: It’s not super creamy and runny, but it’s a softer cheese with a little bit more of a, mm, bite, maybe you can say. Very delicious.
And then a basic cheese that’s just a Tomme de Savoie, which is a hard cheese, but not nearly as dense as the Beaufort. But because this is a region ofcheese, it’s a region where people traditionally have fondue, where they have raclette, because the two things that they have, and of course, this goes back to the ancient times, is they have lots of cheese that can be preserved all winter, and then they have dried meat. You know, they have dried sausages, and they have dried meats.
And so this became the basic staple of the diet up there. And so you still have lots of places, including restaurants, that have this as your fondue or just as your raclette. And so if you don’t eat cheese, it’s a little hard, it’s a little bit f- You can find, of course, other things to eat, and there are normal stores everywhere, but this is an area of really where they have just the most wonderful cheeses, you know?
[00:32:53] Annie: Yeah. Cheese and potato dishes are aplenty.
[00:32:57] Elyse: Aplenty. And then they have this pasta, called crozets,which is interesting because it’s made from buckwheat flour.
[00:33:04] Annie: Right. So if you are,if you eat gluten-free, buckwheat has no wheat in it.
[00:33:10] Elyse: Yep.
[00:33:10] Annie: Yeah, no gluten in it.
[00:33:12] Elyse: No gluten. I did make some. You can buy them in the supermarket.
[00:33:16] Annie: Yeah, they kind of stick together.
[00:33:18] Elyse: Yeah.
[00:33:19] Annie: Yeah.
[00:33:19] Elyse: I think the trick is you have to eat it with, they say the traditional way of eating it was with melted cheese and then with a little bit of the local sausages up there, which are these small, very hard sausages called an Diot, D-I-O-T.
[00:33:33] Annie: Yeah.
[00:33:34] Elyse: I think that you, if you don’t do that, I’m not sure if, I’m not sure how creative you can be. It’s a local dish. We had it up there a few times, and then I tried it once here and then I thought, “Nah, I think I’ll wait and go back there and have it in the restaurant,” you know.
[00:33:47] Annie: If you eat gluten-free, crozets are a good substitution. Make sure, of course, on the packet that it does not contain any wheat, but…
[00:33:54] Elyse: Exactly.
[00:33:55] Annie: Usually when it’s made with buckwheat, there is no gluten in it.
[00:33:59] Elyse: There is a brand of foodstuffs like that, which are really made up there in the Savoy area, and so you can look on the, you can see it on the label. It’s very often accessible even in other places.
And then, the thing that makes my heart beat in the summertime is the blueberries. Of course, you can’t pick them in the national parks, but because this is an area where, in the mountains, it’s true also, of course, a little bit in the Pyrenees, lots and lots and lots of blueberries at the end of the summer.
[00:34:28] Annie: So of course this is one of the things that you find in the bakeries that are very prevalent, the little blueberry tart, and this is, mm, and blueberry jam, and this is one of those things, you know? It’s just… And just blueberry, you can eat it like candy. It’s lovely.
[00:34:44] Elyse: It’s lovely. It’s also, in a world where we’re having more and more problems with pesticides and there’s problems with production of honey because bees are being killed by a lot of the pesticides, interestingly enough, it’s up here in the mountains that you can still find some very, very delicious honey. I usually bring back a couple of jars because it’s authentic. It’s not stuff that’s been, you know, diluted or anything like that.
[00:35:09] Annie: Very cool. Very cool.
[00:35:11] Elyse: So it, I would say that for a change of pace with a few very lovely little villages, the villages have these beautiful little churches very often with this kind of bulb on the top. It almost makes you think of something you might have seen in Russia, but it’s not, it’s not Orthodox churches.
It’s just the traditional architecture of the Savoy is these little churches with a kind of bulb on the top of the church tower. I think at the beginning they were made out of wood. I think that was how they were able to do them.
But it’s very typical of the architecture there, these little churches that have very thick walls that are made out of stone, and of, as you mentioned, a few of these very beautiful villages. But largely, you have lakes, and trails and wonderful scenery, and most of the lakes are so clean you can swim in them. So that’s another thing that you can do.
[00:36:06] Annie: That’s very cool. Before we end, I would like to mention a couple more villages. There’s one called Saint-Martin-de Belleville. It’s in the Trois Vallées area. It has a lot of Savoy charm. It has chalets, a historic church like you were just mentioning, peaceful atmosphere. It’s a beautiful…
And you know, it feels more authentic than some of the more touristy places in the area. Near the Méribel ski area, there’s something called Les Allues, you know, it’s a little quieter and more traditional than the bustling ski resorts. It has stone houses and some narrow streets and some beautiful views. Anyway, there are some very cute villages to visit in this area as well.
[00:36:50] Conclusion and Recommendations
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[00:37:00] Annie: If we want to recommend it for a specific kind of visitors, obviously it would appeal to anybody who’s interested in the Olympics coming up. It would be interesting to people who want to hike and bike and ski and enjoy an active vacation. There are no museums in this area that we, you know, no art museums, it’s not that sort of place. But it’s a place where a family could easily spend a week and not run out of anything to do. Like, it’s very fun.
[00:37:24] Elyse: It’s very fun and very, very beautiful, and nice clean air.
Beautiful.
[00:37:29] Annie: Thank you very much, Elyse.
[00:37:31] Elyse: You are welcome, Annie.
[00:37:33] Annie: Au revoir.
[00:37:34] Elyse: Au revoir.
[00:37:41] Thank you, Patrons
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[00:37:41] Annie Sargent: Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving back and supporting the show. Patrons get many exclusive rewards for doing that. You can see them at patreon.com/joinus, P-A-T-R-E-O-N, joinus, no spaces or dashes. And a special shoutout this week to Ellen, who signed up again as a yearly patron.
Would you join her too? You can do it for as little as $3 a month, but if you can afford it, it would be wonderful to have you pledge more so you can have access to more rewards. Go to patreon.com/joinus, and to support Elyse, go to patreon.com/elysart, E-L-Y-S-A-R-T.
[00:38:25] Tours Reviews
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[00:38:25] Annie Sargent: This week, I’m not going to read any reviews of my tours, even though there were a few. I just want to tell you that if you want to read the reviews for my VoiceMap tours, you go to joinusinfrance.com/vmr.
[00:38:40] Discount for Podcast Listeners
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[00:38:40] Annie Sargent: And podcast listeners get a big discount for buying these tours from my website. It’s best for me as well, because I get to keep more of what you pay, instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, it’s a manual process, so don’t expect it to be instant like it would be if you were buying it directly from VoiceMap. I know most of you listening plan your trips at least a few days, perhaps weeks, perhaps months, perhaps years in advance, so you’re probably not in a big rush.
To use your codes, open the VoiceMap app. On the bottom right, it says Tour Code, tap on it, enter the code, download the tour. And this is a digital product that you own forever, even if you change phones, for example. You log into your VoiceMap account again, and you can download all the tours that you own forever.
VoiceMap tours also work even if you have no data, because you’ve downloaded the audio, the images, and the maps, and your phone always has access to GPS, even if you’re in the middle of the desert with no cell towers.
The GPS feature on your phone uses satellites and not cell towers.
And best of all, for those of you who can’t go to Paris as often as you’d like, you can listen in virtual playback from anywhere in the world. You can take me in your pocket with my VoiceMap tours.
If you’re planning a trip to France and you need personalized advice, you can hire me as your itinerary consultant.
It’s been a busy time for these consults, so book your spot early by going to joinusinfrance.com/boutique. Most of the time, you’ll find a spot within a month, but this time of year, it’s more like two or three months.
And I should also say that I’ve been sending out newsletters again. If you would like to sign up for the weekly newsletter, go to joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
And you should get a newsletter on either Monday or Tuesday every week, depending on where you are in the world. These machines have gotten very, very fancy.
[00:40:54] Train and Road Work During Summer
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[00:40:54] Annie Sargent: Okay, let’s talk about train and road work during summer travels in France. If you’re visiting France this summer or any summer really, especially by train, there’s something you should plan for: major renovation work on public transportation, not just in Paris, but all over the country.
This is especially common during the summer months and school vacations when the French try to limit disruptions to the regular work week. A good example of that is the RER C line in Paris, which will again shut down large parts of its service between July 15th and August 23rd, 2025. This is part of a longstanding modernization effort that’s been going on for, wait for it, over 30 years.
During this six-week stretch, there will be no service between Paris and Versailles on the RER C. You can go to Versailles using the train as well, and that train goes from Gare Saint-Lazare.
Other affected routes include Avenue Henri-Martin to Ermont-Eaubonne, and Massy-Palaiseau to Pont de Rungis.
Service within Paris intra muros, as we call it, which means Paris city proper, will be almost entirely suspended.
Over 540,000 passengers use the RER C daily, and while some travelers, like school staff, might be on break, many others will need to find an alternative routes, so you may face an extra 30 minutes of commute each way.
And to find out what runs and what doesn’t, go to the transit authority Ile-de-France Mobilités. They are the ones who justify the work as essential to bring the line back to the performance levels of the 1990s and to make up for decades of underinvestment.
In 2024, four billion was budgeted and another 200 million is planned for 2025 to upgrade the trains, modernize the infrastructure, and adjust service to better meet passenger needs.
They report a seven-point improvement in punctuality over the past year. Nice. Punctuality is always good, but some critics wonder why it’s taking so long.
In an interview with the press, Arnaud Bertrand of the group Plus de Trains asked why the RER C needs such massive work every summer when the other lines like the RER A were renovated in just five years?
So yeah, that’s a good question. The bottom line, if you are coming to France in summer, expect transport projects especially around major cities and popular destinations like Versailles.
The same applies to roadwork and regional train lines. This is all normal in France and part of keeping infrastructure working long term.
Plan ahead and double check transit routes before you go with an app like Ile-de-France Mobilités or Bonjour RATP or Citymapper, whichever you like to use.
[00:44:13] SNCF strikes
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[00:44:13] Annie Sargent: And people are bound to ask about the strikes that are announced with the SNCF. There are several announced early in May, and so far they haven’t called them off yet, so, we never know if they’re going to happen until 24 hours before the date that they announce, but so far they haven’t called them off.
So, you know, if you are in France, when there’s a big strike like that one of, it’s going to be the 6th, 7th, and possibly 8th of May, it’s best to have a plan B.
And I’ve asked all the people who are coming to the boot camp, which starts on May 9th, to have a plan B because, you never know.
Plan B that works well is for instance a FlixBus reservation. That’s a bus that will, it takes a long time, takes longer than the train, but it’ll get you there. Or perhaps reserve a car rental that you can cancel if you’re not going to use it, and some FlixBus tickets you can also get your money back if you don’t use it.
[00:45:16] Place de la République
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[00:45:16] Annie Sargent: Let’s talk about Place de la République and its graffiti issue.
So I want to give you a quick heads up if you’re planning to stay near Place de la République in Paris, it’s a lively area with lots going on but also where many protests and demonstrations take place.
Most days, it’s not a big deal, but if you’re the kind of traveler who prefers predictability, it might not be the ideal base.
The statue at the center of the square called the Monument à la République has become a magnet for graffiti, especially during protests. And every major demonstration, the base of the statue is often covered in slogans, political messages, and anti-police tags.
It’s a symbolic spot and many people feel very strongly about it.
Now, not everyone sees the graffiti as a problem. Some locals feel like it’s a form of expression that fits the square’s history. Others think it’s just disrespectful and messy.
One woman quoted in a recent article said, “I don’t think it’s respectful. It’s dirty. I might be turning into a grumpy old lady, but it bothers me.”
And a friend of hers said, “I like that the place feels alive. The graffiti gives it meaning.”
The city, however, is getting really fed up. Ariel Weil, the mayor of Paris City Center says he’s tired of seeing the statue and the square defaced at every protest. It costs Paris about six million euros a year to clean up the 650 square meters of tags every single day.
The city is considering new protective measures that might include raising the platform around the statue, adding barriers like the ones around the Bastille or Place Vendome columns, or even planting greenery around and blocking access temporarily during certain events.
Critics say that fencing off the statue will not solve the problem. It could even encourage more graffiti, especially from people who see the barriers as a challenge to freedom and expression.
And let’s face it, graffiti artists are very resourceful and some of them do a nice job. I got to say. Some graffiti is better than others. Local officials also emphasized that professional cleaners are on it constantly using high pressure water and minimal solvents to avoid damaging the stone and they’re pressing charges when they can, especially when they identify repeat offenders through surveillance footage.
So the bottom line is that the Place de la République is one of Paris’s major public spaces. It’s full of life, meaning, and activity but it also reflects the city’s political energy, sometimes literally in spray paint.
So if you’re staying in the area, just be aware you might walk into a peaceful demonstration or see this statue half covered in graffiti.
It’s not a dangerous area, but that’s definitely part of the vibe, and if you’re the kind of traveler who prefers quiet, tidy squares with no surprises, you should really pick another neighborhood.
My thanks to podcast editors Anne and Christian Cotovan who produced the transcripts and the audio.
[00:48:44] Next week on the podcast
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[00:48:44] Annie Sargent: Next week on the podcast, we’ll explore the Southwest of France with Dawn Fairchild.
Dawn will share tales of her incredible solo journey through Toulouse to the historic depths of prehistoric caves and much more. It’s an adventure filled with unique experiences, delightful encounters, and stunning landscapes and it’s the Southwest. It’s amazing, what can I tell you?
Thank you so much for listening and I hope you join me next time so we can look around France together. Au revoir.
[00:49:15] Copyright
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[00:49:15] Annie: The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted, and produced by Annie Sargent, and Copyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance. It is released under a Creative Commons attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives license.
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